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  1. #1
    Time for Dissection FlashingSabre's Avatar
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    Default The Fate of Lennox (Spoilers)

    So Lennox is dead at the moment. The question now is: should he come back? Does anyone not want him back? If he does comeback, where should he go after Azzarello leaves the title?
    Cyclops was right

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    I don't think he's really dead. Azz wouldn't have his crumbling head sitting on furniture at Diana's if he wasn't. That's a little too dark even for this "horror" book. He may have something to do with Hippolyta's return, since they're both made of stone.

  3. #3
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    You're an eighty years old super-soldier, who's made of STONE...who regularly gets your head and chest cracked open like and egg, ..but, who doesn't get your sister, ..who is WONDER WOMAN, ..to hook you up with a pair of indestructible bracelets that could [like...] so-ooo NOT get your head cracked open (again) and that would probably save your miserable, quasi-immortal life?! You just keep running BACK into battle, after battle, ..knowing what's going to happen...that you'll surely get your head cracked open (again) by a brain-eating monster, who will use it as a SOCCER BALL, before it winds up on someone's mantle, ..even though your half-brother is an immortal smith god, who makes weapons for ZEUS and ATHENA...

    Wonder Woman has a pair of indestructible bracelets, an unbreakable, magic lasso, a shield, a shiny, metallic bustier and SWORDS shooting out of her bracelets! She's got weapons inside and ON TOP of her weapons, ..and...u-uuh...what does her dufus half-brother have? Seriously...what good is he?

    Does Lennox deserve to come back? Do we want this idiot back in 'the Army?' Do we need him? Isn't Orion, enough?
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 06-26-2014 at 11:02 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnightsHammer View Post
    So Lennox is dead at the moment. The question now is: should he come back? Does anyone not want him back? If he does comeback, where should he go after Azzarello leaves the title?
    I was a great character, but I am a strong supporter of not bringing back dead characters ever, no matter how much I like them.

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    Dead is dead. Oh, wait a second, this is a comic.

    Well, if he isn't dead permanently, then it ruins the impact of his death in the comics and therefore makes any other deaths just a ho-hum affair. We would just be waiting for the inevitable resurrection.

    I would say that if Lennox's death doesn't remain permanent, then it should lessen the greatness (at least in some peoples eyes) of Azz's story. Besides, the come back to life trope in comics would be too easy of a cop out.

  6. #6

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    I thought you had some spoilers about the end of the story OP. How is any of this spoilerish?

  7. #7
    Time for Dissection FlashingSabre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Hurt View Post
    I thought you had some spoilers about the end of the story OP. How is any of this spoilerish?
    I just read his death scene, and I wasn't sure how old a story had to be to not be spoilers. I'm new.

    Also, to Mel Dyer: I started screaming at the screen when he did his sacrifice charge. Why the hell didn't he keep the Gatling gun? They could have just knocked the First Born back with that! Plus, it looked awesome.
    Cyclops was right

  8. #8
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    How does a guy, who turns into stone, charge into battle next to WONDER WOMAN, who happens to be his sister, and not get Hephaestus to hook him up with a pair of indestructible arm-bands?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    How does a guy, who turns into stone, charge into battle next to WONDER WOMAN, who happens to be his sister, and not get Hephaestus to hook him up with a pair of indestructible arm-bands?
    He can't use the armbands. He lacks the skill and superspeed required.
    And Hephaestus isn't Santa Claus.

  10. #10

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    I dont think he ever needed bracelets or armor. I think being hard as a rock (n-no pun intended...) was enough for him. But when he got mixed into this adventure, he found himself out of his league because WW and the FB were much more powerful than he was. Now, i dont know why Azz didnt make him more powerful, or even care to tell us a bit more about him, but he was cool while he was here.

  11. #11
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Hurt View Post
    I dont think he ever needed bracelets or armor. I think being hard as a rock (n-no pun intended...) was enough for him. But when he got mixed into this adventure, he found himself out of his league because WW and the FB were much more powerful than he was. Now, i dont know why Azz didnt make him more powerful, or even care to tell us a bit more about him, but he was cool while he was here.
    Well, good grief...his sister's already got a pair of indestructible bracelets, before the Smith installed her magic swords! How can you be a guy, watching all of this, who regularly gets his stone head and chest cracked apart and not armor yourself with something?

    Consider also that we are seeing Lennox at the twilight of his life's adventure; he's EIGHTY years old. Lennox is leaping into fights with gods and monsters, after some seventy or so years of smacking around tanks and soldiers for the Crown! He's hardly in his prime, and he knows it, but fights on anyway, ..and that's pretty brave. With all that in mind, I've never doubted his courage.

    It's Lennox's intelligence that isn't registering.

    What would be the point of bringing this idiot back, anyway? Unless, Lennox has somehow been restored to his prime or powered-up, since his last appearance, he'll be as useless, as he was, before.
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 06-29-2014 at 08:28 PM.
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    Well, good grief...his sister's already got a pair of indestructible bracelets, before the Smith installed her magic swords! How can you be a guy, watching all of this, who regularly gets his stone head and chest cracked apart and not armor yourself with something?

    Consider also that we are seeing Lennox at the twilight of his life's adventure; he's EIGHTY years old. Lennox is leaping into fights with gods and monsters, after some seventy or so years of smacking around tanks and soldiers for the Crown! He's hardly in his prime, and he knows it, but fights on anyway, ..and that's pretty brave. With all that in mind, I've never doubted his courage.

    It's Lennox's intelligence that isn't registering.

    What would be the point of bringing this idiot back, anyway? Unless, Lennox has somehow been restored to his prime or powered-up, since his last appearance, he'll be as useless, as he was, before.
    The in-universe reason is that he doesnt need just bracelets, but an entire armor. He doesnt have the training to use the bracelets, not that they would help him against the FB. He even beat Diana in god mode.

    The out of universe reason is that Azzarello wanted him to be this brit guy who follows the gang, offers some wisedom here and there, and babysits Zola. If Azzarello wanted him to be a competent fighter, he would have been. He would have been made out of sturdier rock (Ben Grimm from the F4 for example), or had eye lasers, a machine gun, or whatever. But he didnt. I know you wanted him to become some sort of Wonder Man, but that's not who Azzarello wanted. I dont think it pays to blame the character when it all comes down to how Azzarello wanted to man WW's team.

    I mean, an even more logical question would be, why didnt Highfather send an entire army instead of just Orion if this was an reality ending threat?
    Answer: because Orion had to socialize with Diana and the others somehow. So again, the explanation is how Azz wanted to man WW's team.

  13. #13
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Hurt View Post
    The in-universe reason is that he doesnt need just bracelets, but an entire armor. He doesnt have the training to use the bracelets, not that they would help him against the FB. He even beat Diana in god mode.

    The out of universe reason is that Azzarello wanted him to be this brit guy who follows the gang, offers some wisedom here and there, and babysits Zola. If Azzarello wanted him to be a competent fighter, he would have been. He would have been made out of sturdier rock (Ben Grimm from the F4 for example), or had eye lasers, a machine gun, or whatever. But he didnt. I know you wanted him to become some sort of Wonder Man, but that's not who Azzarello wanted. I dont think it pays to blame the character...
    While I think it's unbelievably short-sighted and extremely wasteful of Mr. Azzarello, the only conclusion I can come to about his designs for Lennox is that he created him to be killed off. That's it.

    Don't really see Lennox as 'Mister Wonder' material, ..but still think that, given the development, he could be the next Wolverine, Nightwing or, at least, Steel. Lennox could be a character, like Steve Trevor, who gains popularity outside of the Wonder Woman comic, while pointing back to the comic ..and hopefully drawing new readers to WW. As Lennox's look and style is decidedly and refreshingly unlike Wonder Woman's, the indestructible bracelets, like green skin, a Batarang or a big 'S' insignia, are just a way of branding him as a member of the Wonder Woman Family.

    That branding is something the X-Men, Batman Family and Superman Family have enjoyed for decades and has greatly helped to build their large fandoms, beyond the Superman and Action Comics books. Except for Donna Troy and Cassie, the WW comic has never benefitted from having popular characters, wearing the 'brand' outside of the comic, ..and that's unfortunate.

    I still think Wonder Woman needs a break-out character, but don't really believe that a costumed 'Wonder Man' or boy will be taken as anything, ..but, a bad joke.
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 06-29-2014 at 11:56 PM.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    While I think it's unbelievably short-sighted and extremely wasteful of Mr. Azzarello, the only conclusion I can come to about his designs for Lennox is that he created him to be killed off. That's it.
    I don't think you quite get how stories are written. In properly written stories, characters have roles. Those characters are put into the story for a reason and if you let corporate desires corrupt that then you end up with a crappy story.

    You're essentially complaining that if Bambi's mom would have gotten some kevlar and a gun she would not have died.

    Don't really see Lennox as 'Mister Wonder' material, ..but still think that, given the development, he could be the next Wolverine, Nightwing or, at least, Steel. Lennox could be a character, like Steve Trevor, who gains popularity outside of the Wonder Woman comic, while pointing back to the comic ..and hopefully drawing new readers to WW.
    And if some new writer agrees, he or she can always bring him back. Which would be sad, because I don't like characters coming back.

    As Lennox's look and style is decidedly and refreshingly unlike Wonder Woman's, the indestructible bracelets, like green skin, a Batarang or a big 'S' insignia, are just a way of branding him as a member of the Wonder Woman Family.

    That branding is something the X-Men, Batman Family and Superman Family have enjoyed for decades and has greatly helped to build their large fandoms, beyond the Superman and Action Comics books. Except for Donna Troy and Cassie, the WW comic has never benefitted from having popular characters, wearing the 'brand' outside of the comic, ..and that's unfortunate.
    You honestly think that Lennox has even a one in a billion shot at having a book?
    And why aren't you going on about Stve Trevor not wearing a patriotic bathing suit to brand him? Or Hippolyta? Or any old-universe Amazon? Why singke out Lennox?

    I still think Wonder Woman needs a break-out character, but don't really believe that a costumed 'Wonder Man' or boy will be taken as anything, ..but, a bad joke.
    And yet you are argueing to turn Lennox in precisely that in everything except actual name.

  15. #15
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    I don't think you quite get how stories are written. In properly written stories, characters have roles. Those characters are put into the story for a reason and if you let corporate desires corrupt that then you end up with a crappy story.

    You're essentially complaining that if Bambi's mom would have gotten some kevlar and a gun she would not have died...

    You honestly think that Lennox has even a one in a billion shot at having a book? And why aren't you going on about Stve Trevor not wearing a patriotic bathing suit to brand him? Or Hippolyta? Or any old-universe Amazon? Why singke out Lennox?

    And yet you are argueing to turn Lennox in precisely that in everything except actual name.
    Great Hera, Carabas! Did you read anything I just wrote?

    I just said that I think a Wonder Boy or man would be entirely ridiculous. How do you get Steve Trevor in 'a patriotic bathing suit' out of that? How do you get that putting armbands on Lennox, who doesn't look or read anything like Wonder Woman, make him 'Wonder Man'? I just said that I think it's a wacky idea! What do you want from me?!

    I think Azzarello created Lennox to kill him off for dramatic effect ..and nothing more.

    This is something that, in spite of my initial hopes for what could be done with Lennox, that I have accepted and moved on from. In consideration of the dramatic impact that Lennox's death was intended to create (but didn't), I also realized, rather later than you and our other friends here, what an incredibly stupid, pointless and ridiculous character that Lennox had been. Beyond establishing that the New 52 Wonder Woman had demigod siblings in the world, Lennox really brought nothing to the story, was eclipsed and made irrelevant by the arrival of Orion and was never developed to even a tenth of his narrative potential.

    He was a waste of time, and I'm glad he's out of the comic.

    And I think you couldn't be more wrong about what corporate ambitions can do for the development of a story and a comic book character. If you really, really believe that, you should burn every comic book you have and put out your eyes with hot pokers! Without corporate ambitions driving the comic book publishing business, most of the classic characters we read about wouldn't have lasted beyond a first appearance. Where do you think Robin, Superboy, Winter Soldier, She-Hulk, the Justice League and the SILVER AGE came from? Some beatniks hanging out in a coffee shop?

    Corporate desires? Are you kidding me?!

    I don't think you quite get that a superhero comic, called Wonder Woman, is being written by someone, who has told us, very plainly, that he has no interest in writing a superhero adventure comic ..or how that shapes the writing of a story.
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 06-30-2014 at 02:44 AM.
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