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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    I don't really care about the movie, I just find it ridiculous that Raven has been aged down so much that she's being paired with Damian now when she started out around the same age and being attracted to Dick.
    Garth is the middle of the 2000s and the most popular because of the cartoon.
    I wonder if 10-20 years from now she's going to be paired with Helena Wayne after Damian grows to teenage and young adulthood.

    Like I thought I feel weird when I found out Zatanna was dating Dick in Young Justice and it's a popular ship when I know she's Bruce's generation, or Tim dating Barbara in Arkham Knight when she's not dating Bruce in BTAS. Why do these adaptations always make things weird?
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 05-09-2020 at 04:27 PM.

  2. #17
    Spectacular Member Grandmaster_J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    I don't really care about the movie, I just find it ridiculous that Raven has been aged down so much that she's being paired with Damian now when she started out around the same age and being attracted to Dick.
    Garth is the middle of the 2000s and the most popular because of the cartoon.
    I wonder if 10-20 years from now she's going to be paired with Helena Wayne after Damian grows to teenage and young adulthood.
    I'm mainly in the same boat as you and others that have pointed out the age gap and de-aging. I don't get it....

    I remember when the films started out and as soon as I saw the possibility of them going in that direction, I immediately turned away from the entire universe. I find the relationship just revolting but it's only gonna get worse because it's become such a popular ship mainly because many have always wanted a Robin and Raven relationship. Fans of it are probably gonna push D.C. to make it relevant in the comics.

    Or maybe they won't have to if I were to guess D.C. might be just as fond of it.
    Last edited by Grandmaster_J; 05-09-2020 at 06:46 PM.

  3. #18
    Mighty Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Verdict: Meh.

    [10characters]

  4. #19
    Mighty Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    I don't really care about the movie, I just find it ridiculous that Raven has been aged down so much that she's being paired with Damian now when she started out around the same age and being attracted to Dick.
    Garth is the middle of the 2000s and the most popular because of the cartoon.
    I wonder if 10-20 years from now she's going to be paired with Helena Wayne after Damian grows to teenage and young adulthood.

    Like I thought I feel weird when I found out Zatanna was dating Dick in Young Justice and it's a popular ship when I know she's Bruce's generation, or Tim dating Barbara in Arkham Knight when she's not dating Bruce in BTAS. Why do these adaptations always make things weird?
    I agree. It's not like DC is in a shortage of teen magical girls; Black Alice, Traci 13, Mary Marvel,

  5. #20
    Mighty Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    I don't really care about the movie, I just find it ridiculous that Raven has been aged down so much that she's being paired with Damian now when she started out around the same age and being attracted to Dick.
    Garth is the middle of the 2000s and the most popular because of the cartoon.
    I wonder if 10-20 years from now she's going to be paired with Helena Wayne after Damian grows to teenage and young adulthood.

    Like I thought I feel weird when I found out Zatanna was dating Dick in Young Justice and it's a popular ship when I know she's Bruce's generation, or Tim dating Barbara in Arkham Knight when she's not dating Bruce in BTAS. Why do these adaptations always make things weird?
    Well as a person who likes dick and zatanna I don't mind.

    People may not like raven being deaged but the fact is she's is deaged so I don't see it being weird. Limiting characters to past versions or canon that no longer exist I don't get. Raven and Damian are both teens and dick and zatanna are adults there's no problem.

    I don't ship raven and Damian but I don't mind it either. Teens can date teens and adults can date adults screw "generations".

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    I don't really care about the movie, I just find it ridiculous that Raven has been aged down so much that she's being paired with Damian now when she started out around the same age and being attracted to Dick.
    Garth is the middle of the 2000s and the most popular because of the cartoon.
    I wonder if 10-20 years from now she's going to be paired with Helena Wayne after Damian grows to teenage and young adulthood.

    Like I thought I feel weird when I found out Zatanna was dating Dick in Young Justice and it's a popular ship when I know she's Bruce's generation, or Tim dating Barbara in Arkham Knight when she's not dating Bruce in BTAS. Why do these adaptations always make things weird?
    The Raven and Damian thing is a bit like the Dick and Zatanna thing, in that there *is* a story reason for the change, while I think the Tim and Babs thing s likely a mistake made by guys who aren’t comic fans making a choice based off their rough knowledge of Batman land, then stubbornly holding to it even when someone likely pointed out they’d unintentionally made the story timeline a bit stupid.

    With Dick and Zatanna, it was because Young Justice was going to lean heavily into legacy and family, and Weismann wanted to use Zatara as well as his daughter; Weismann had some big plans for Fate and Zatara, so de-aging Zatanna to fit with the Team was a natural choice to give his daughter perspective of that, then sticking Zatanna on a team with Grayson just kind of led to their fling. With Damian and Raven, it’s because that movie continuity tended to operate in broad themes along a similarly predictable but more competent marketing philosophy as the New 52*, so Damian and Raven having an evil parent apiece was the biggest reason to have them interact, especially when the films were going to do what every Titans adaptation was with Raven and just do the Trigon thing - that made them the most important Titans characters, so they were paired a bit for efficiency's sake.

    *Note: I still don’t really like that continuity’s application of the New 52 principles - it feels limiting, prosaic, and often unnecessary, but the films at least had a more even handed application of it and a more even handed adjustment away from it than the comics did.

    The Tim and Babs thing almost certainly happened because someone in the writing room knew “Robin <3 Batgirl,” and had caught on that Oracle was Batgirl... but either didn’t know or didn’t care about Dick being Babs’s Robin, even though the art team had, and even though WB Montreal likely knew that, given they’d put a Babs and Dick around the same age in their Origins game. Though honestly, Arkham Knight’s story feels like it was just crafted with a lot less care that the other games, particularly in regards to the Batfamily. The choice with Tim led to them having to age him up, make him an adult, make the time between Jason and Tim’s Robin tenures extremely small, and left Nightwing kind of divorced from most of the story.
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  7. #22
    Mighty Member SixSpeedSamurai's Avatar
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    Nope, they need to stop aging her down.
    Pulls: Batman, Detective Comics, and Young Justice.
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  8. #23
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    I was blind sided by the romance and how popular it seems to be however I liked it. They made a good pair and it was a good take away from that universe.

    Raven dated Wallace in Rebirth [canon] so for her to date an older Damian in the animated universe is nothing.

    Raven has always been deaged. She still is the the comics Titans burning rage so I have zero issues with her getting aged down. It's status Quo for Raven and Beast Boy sadly.

    The relationship was well done and the development organic. Damian and Raven in the comics doesn't work. In that shared universe it does.

  9. #24
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    I still think DCNAU Robin is still nowhere near posh enough; the kid needs some kind of clipped, aristocratic accent to transform the over-the-top brattiness to the Damian Wayne that I think of. He seems a bit like they're trying to mix some of the archetypal characterization of Robin with the Robin most apart from it.
    I don't think it's that easy to find a voice actor that age with the clipped British accent that you're thinking of for Damian but I get what you mean.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    I don't really care about the movie, I just find it ridiculous that Raven has been aged down so much that she's being paired with Damian now when she started out around the same age and being attracted to Dick.
    Garth is the middle of the 2000s and the most popular because of the cartoon.
    I wonder if 10-20 years from now she's going to be paired with Helena Wayne after Damian grows to teenage and young adulthood.

    Like I thought I feel weird when I found out Zatanna was dating Dick in Young Justice and it's a popular ship when I know she's Bruce's generation, or Tim dating Barbara in Arkham Knight when she's not dating Bruce in BTAS. Why do these adaptations always make things weird?

    At least she is allowed to grow up with Damian, beastboy forever being a boy is why she can’t moove on from the teen titans. Notice that injustice she is an adult, and even in this new 52 she is 19

  11. #26
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    I don't care one way or another about shipping really, and it'd never work in the books where there's too much of an age gap, but in those movies it's kind of cute.

  12. #27
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oasis1313 View Post
    Isn't Raven a little too OLD for Damian?
    Not in those movies - there's maybe two, possibly three years between them tops - pure guesswork though since I don't think they ever said,

  13. #28
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    The Raven and Damian thing is a bit like the Dick and Zatanna thing, in that there *is* a story reason for the change, while I think the Tim and Babs thing s likely a mistake made by guys who aren’t comic fans making a choice based off their rough knowledge of Batman land, then stubbornly holding to it even when someone likely pointed out they’d unintentionally made the story timeline a bit stupid.
    I don't think the guys that wrote Arkham Knight had a rough knowledge about Batman.
    I think they went with TimBabs because they needed Tim to be Robin, and Nightwing wasn't going to play a main role in the story. Hence why they shipped Babs and Tim, because they did had a main role in the center stage,and Barbara having ties to Robin was important for the drama.

    Could've worked with Stephanie, too, I think; but then you have to present yet another character, and make up some reason for Jason and Scarecrow for kidnapping her.
    Last edited by Zaresh; 05-11-2020 at 01:53 PM.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Not in those movies - there's maybe two, possibly three years between them tops - pure guesswork though since I don't think they ever said,
    she is a year older


  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
    I don't think the guys that wrote Arkham Knight had a rough knowledge about Batman.
    I think they went with TimBabs because they needed Tim to be Robin, and Nightwing wasn't going to play a main role in the story. Hence why they shipped Babs and Tim, because they did had a main role in the center stage,and Barbara having ties to Robin was important for the drama.

    Could've worked with Stephanie, too, I think; but then you have to present yet another character, and make up some reason for Jason and Scarecrow for kidnapping her.
    There’s absolutely no element of Tim and Babs’s relationship in Arkham Knight that couldn’t be done with Nightwing; Tim and Babs don’t even share any screentime in the game. All three characters play the part of hostage for Knight’s somewhat rote and forgettable plot. Dick could be the guy who gets angry at Bruce without any issue to the story. Robin’s “main role” could be switched out with Nightwing with only a moderate increase in creativity on the parts of the writers, all while maintaining Robin’s youth for whatever banal hostage situation they wanted later. The only real reasons seems to be the same dumb marketing-based “logic” that crept up in the New 52 - that the more well known IP’s should consolidate all elements and not differentiate as much.

    There’s no good defense for Arkham Knight’s creative choices whenever you leave their idea of having Jason’s death be faked.

    At least Damian and Raven has some actual story to it.
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