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  1. #31
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    There’s absolutely no element of Tim and Babs’s relationship in Arkham Knight that couldn’t be done with Nightwing; Tim and Babs don’t even share any screentime in the game. All three characters play the part of hostage for Knight’s somewhat rote and forgettable plot. Dick could be the guy who gets angry at Bruce without any issue to the story. Robin’s “main role” could be switched out with Nightwing with only a moderate increase in creativity on the parts of the writers, all while maintaining Robin’s youth for whatever banal hostage situation they wanted later. The only real reasons seems to be the same dumb marketing-based “logic” that crept up in the New 52 - that the more well known IP’s should consolidate all elements and not differentiate as much.

    There’s no good defense for Arkham Knight’s creative choices whenever you leave their idea of having Jason’s death be faked.

    At least Damian and Raven has some actual story to it.

    If you switch Dick for Tim, you don't have a Robin in the story. And you need a Robin in the story that came after Jason, not that came before, to reinforce two facts: that Jason had a succesor even when he was alive somewhere, still kidnapped by Joker; and a Robin that Bruce could use for his own guilt trip, seeing Jason in him sometimes, like an echo.

    You can't do that with Dick as Nightwing, and you don't want Dick as Robin here either, because he's older than Jason by several years (already an adult), and also was already stablished as Robin previowsly, many years before the last game time.
    Last edited by Zaresh; 05-11-2020 at 07:53 PM.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
    If you switch Dick for Tim, you don't have a Robin in the story. And you need a Robin in the story that came after Jason, not that came before, to reinforce two facts: that Jason had a succesor even when he was alive somewhere, still kidnapped by Joker; and a Robin that Bruce could use for his own guilt trip, seeing Jason in him sometimes, like an echo.

    You can't do that with Dick as Nightwing, and you don't want Dick as Robin here either, because he's older than Jason by several years (already an adult), and also was already stablished as Robin previowsly, many years before the last game time.
    And absolutely none of that benefits from Tim being aged up and put in a relationship with Babs, not does any of it require the stupidity of Arkham Knight’s repetition of the hostage plot again and again, nor for having Nightwing be treated as an ancillary character. Arkham Knights manages to have all three of the first Robins and Oracle in the game but never puts them in a scene together, in spite of the fact the best way to write Jason’s story would be to have him encounter his predecessor and successor, and that the best way to handle Bruce’s possible retirement would be to have his “eldest” and heir apparent deal with that, or that the best way to handle the mystery about the Arkham Knight’s identity would be to have an actual investigation.

    And at least Damian and Raven’s relationship intends to add something to the mythos and both characters. They actually try and do something kind of new with the two characters, building a new interaction based off a commonality and trying to have them develop a unique rapport. Arkham Knight just vaguely refers to a Dick and Babs-style attraction between Tim and Babs, but without much history. Hell, the Batgirl DLC doesn’t even do that much with it, and would have benefitted far more from having Dick as her partner back then, Jason as her partner to establish more of his Robin personality, or Tim as the rookie to Babs’s veteran.

    I don’t really like the New 52 DCAU, but it’s not like Rocksteady did much better with Arkham Knight. If anything, they showed they and even less of a grasp f how to handle the Robins.
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  3. #33
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    Hey, I'm not arguing about the quality of the writing. I don't know a thing about the movies with Damian and Raven, or arguing that that ship is justified or not. My point was that TimBabs wasn't an arbitrary choice in AK or that it was like it was just because the writers didn't know enough about the Batman franchise: it was a thorough choice that they made, fruit of the circumbstances of the gaming feanchise, the setting they were going to have, and the twists they wanted to play in the story. It made sense narratively speaking. That's my point.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
    Hey, I'm not arguing about the quality of the writing. I don't know a thing about the movies with Damian and Raven, or arguing that that ship is justified or not. My point was that TimBabs wasn't an arbitrary choice in AK or that it was like it was just because the writers didn't know enough about the Batman franchise: it was a thorough choice that they made, fruit of the circumbstances of the gaming feanchise, the setting they were going to have, and the twists they wanted to play in the story. It made sense narratively speaking. That's my point.
    that games continuity tied into BTAS tim is like 11 and she just started college so WTF?

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    that games continuity tied into BTAS tim is like 11 and she just started college so WTF?
    No, it doesn't tie with the BTAS, really. Just look at Arkhan Asylum Joker, it's not the same character. The only thing they share is voice acting. The game used some elements, but that's it. She's older than Tim, true, but there's nothing wrong with that by itself. Tim is 21 in the game, as far as I recall, at that point in the timeline.

    Edit: unless, they did say that the Arkhamverse is tied to the Timmverse and I'm very wrong. Is this something official?
    Last edited by Zaresh; 05-12-2020 at 06:50 PM.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
    No, it doesn't tie with the BTAS, really. Just look at Arkhan Asylum Joker, it's not the same character. The only thing they share is voice acting. The game used some elements, but that's it. She's older than Tim, true, but there's nothing wrong with that by itself. Tim is 21 in the game, as far as I recall, at that point in the timeline.

    Edit: unless, they did say that the Arkhamverse is tied to the Timmverse and I'm very wrong. Is this something official?
    He’s in high school!!! The timeline fits that of Btas

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    He’s in high school!!! The timeline fits that of Btas
    Oh, ok. You're kidding.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    I was blind sided by the romance and how popular it seems to be however I liked it. They made a good pair and it was a good take away from that universe.

    Raven dated Wallace in Rebirth [canon] so for her to date an older Damian in the animated universe is nothing.

    Raven has always been deaged. She still is the the comics Titans burning rage so I have zero issues with her getting aged down. It's status Quo for Raven and Beast Boy sadly.

    The relationship was well done and the development organic. Damian and Raven in the comics doesn't work. In that shared universe it does.
    Actually I always thought that Raven would be the PERFECT girlfriend for CONNER, if he and Cassie split up.
    In Johns TT Team they were about the same age, she cared for him as he had problems after the fights with Superboy Prime as his body got problems..
    She brought him soup etc.
    As he had problems because he found out that he is a clone Raven showed him his soul....

    And they are also both in some ways daughter of an evil guy:
    Raven Trigon
    Conner Lex

    and both were tried to be instrumentalized as weapons.

    And powerwise etc. she would be better for Conner...
    I mean if he ever wants to have kids, then the choice for mother is also important, given that he is half-kryptonian.

    Its not so important for Damian...

  9. #39
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    Actually I always thought that Raven would be the PERFECT girlfriend for CONNER, if he and Cassie split up.
    In Johns TT Team they were about the same age, she cared for him as he had problems after the fights with Superboy Prime as his body got problems..
    She brought him soup etc.
    As he had problems because he found out that he is a clone Raven showed him his soul....

    And they are also both in some ways daughter of an evil guy:
    Raven Trigon
    Conner Lex

    and both were tried to be instrumentalized as weapons.

    And powerwise etc. she would be better for Conner...
    I mean if he ever wants to have kids, then the choice for mother is also important, given that he is half-kryptonian.

    Its not so important for Damian...
    Conner and Raven seems like an interesting couple that could work.

    I like when they mix things up. Conner and wonder girl is predictable so i wouldn't mind getting a glimpse of Conner with someone else.

  10. #40
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    I actually love there relation ship in this universe. There ages aren't far apart in age and there mood sort of mellow each other out. wail some may not agreeing with it because of they aren't used to raven being younger than dick.It honestly shouldn't matter.Not to long ago I was a BB x raven fan and still am but in that particular universe I do ship Raven X Damian. As I watch more movies i do hope there relationship progresses!

  11. #41
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    since this is obviously the movie Damian I ship him with Raven.other can say what ever they want cause this is different form the comics. I do hope there relationship progresses in the movies.

  12. #42

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    For the movies I thought it was fine for what it was.

  13. #43
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    The grandson/daughter of Batman with demonic power might be cool..

  14. #44
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    My answer is...Beast Boy and Raven for life.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkout42 View Post
    My answer is...Beast Boy and Raven for life.
    Have the two ever had a relationship?

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