View Poll Results: Which new castmembers from Azz's run should make it to the next?

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  • Zola

    21 45.65%
  • Orion

    14 30.43%
  • Lennox

    9 19.57%
  • Aleka & Dessa

    8 17.39%
  • the Manazons

    12 26.09%
  • Cassandra

    8 17.39%
  • First Born

    5 10.87%
  • Strife

    16 34.78%
  • One or more of the other reimagined gods

    23 50.00%
  • No One

    2 4.35%
  • Everyone

    14 30.43%
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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    They're average or above average for a Wonder Woman book.

    Wonder Woman 31 $2.99 DC 30,655

    Superman/Wonder Woman 8 $3.99 DC 47,803

    It seems WW in a superhero setting sells very well, even when one has to pay an extra dollar for the inclusion of Superman.

    The current 30,655 is roughly 15,000 less than Greg Rucka sold at his peak, while telling a superhero based story, as opposed to a mythological one. Heinberg's superhero fare sold even better. Therefore there's no reason to think a change in tone wouldn't sell if written well.
    Last edited by Razor Tiara; 06-28-2014 at 07:41 AM.

  2. #32
    Astonishing Member OBrianTallent's Avatar
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    Despite the fact that I would prefer (only slightly) that all of Azzerello's run be mostly forgotten by the next creative team, it would be nice for a set of characters in Wonder Woman's history to be carried into the next run. She is the only title carrying character that I can think of to have a completely new status quo with each new creative team. That get's really old. Where is her Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen, Alfred, Commissioner Gordon...? One could argue that the Amazons are there each time and the gods are there with each run, but neither are recognizable from one run to the next (for the Amazons, they just kill them off and create new ones even!)
    Keep Zola...sure, but she needs a role other than damsel in distress.
    Cassandra could be a very cool recurring villain.
    I would rather see Phillipus and Artemis back than the other two Amazons. (Although Hessia in Sm/WW is turning out to be pretty cool should she survive Doomsday.)
    The Greek gods....they will always be back and around so nothing lost there.
    First Born...like others have said, no matter what happens, he is Wonder Woman's Doomsday. He will show up again eventually when a writer doesn't have much else to do.
    The Manazons. I'm fine with them being teleported into some other dimension and being forgotten.
    Strife...she always needs to be around in some limited capacity. She makes for an interesting foil to Diana.
    Orion...he needs to be part of the New Gods, not just a supporting character in a Wonder Woman book. Give us a full out New Gods story in Wonder Woman and then move on.
    and then we have Lennox. I could honestly care less about him, but if they are going to tie Wonder Girl to Wonder Woman through him, then there needs to be something done with him. There needs to be a story with the three of them.
    Just my thoughts any way.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Tiara View Post
    Wonder Woman 31 $2.99 DC 30,655

    Superman/Wonder Woman 8 $3.99 DC 47,803

    It seems WW in a superhero setting sells very well. The current 30,655 is roughly 15,000 less than Greg Rucka sold at his peak, while telling a superhero based story, as opposed to a mythological one.
    To be fair, it does have DC's poster boy Superman in the title as well. Plus, Rucka's was a (perfect) blend of superheroism and mythology.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatman View Post
    To be fair, it does have DC's poster boy Superman in the title as well. Plus, Rucka's was a (perfect) blend of superheroism and mythology.
    Yes it was, but Sacrifice is what made his numbers rise even faster and that story was a superhero adventure.

    It's also interesting to note that Superman/Wonder Woman sells better than Superman's main solo title. If DC really wanted to make money off their poster boy, the book would be Batman/Wonder Woman.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatman View Post
    To be fair, it does have DC's poster boy Superman in the title as well. Plus, Rucka's was a (perfect) blend of superheroism and mythology.
    Also, it's issue 31 vs issue 8. Sales drop as the issues go.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Hurt View Post
    Also, it's issue 31 vs issue 8. Sales drop as the issues go.
    That wasn't true of Greg Rucka, his numbers got better as time went on, that's a hallmark of superior storytelling. Word of mouth helped him in ways that have yet to increase Azzarello's sales, which continue to fall
    .

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Tiara View Post
    That wasn't true of Greg Rucka, his numbers got better as time went on, that's a hallmark of superior storytelling. Word of mouth helped him in ways that have yet to increase Azzarello's sales, which continue to fall
    .
    Huh... Nice!

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Tiara View Post
    That's not going to happen, because all Azz has done is swap out one set of fans for another. When you go, older WW fans will return.

    Game of Thrones isn't a monthly comic book that takes less than 10 minutes to read. The pace of this story is muuuuuuchhh slllllloweeeerrr and there's far less bang for your buck.
    Personally don't care about "bang for my buck" if there's a lot going on in an issue but it's mediocre and same old, same old, cliched superhero action. I'm fine spending money collecting an overall long drawn out story that keeps my interest month to month. admittedly it reads better in trades or graphic novels, but being a vertigo fan, I'm okay with a slooooowwww buuuurrrrnnn long as its good. The Supes and WW book reads like its for a 10 year old, for instance, though it has a lot of action.

    as for fans, one group as you say will swap out for another which will just keep the character at average sales anyway as she's always been...though I'd love for someone to post how the collected volumes are selling. And are digital sales counted? I buy my books on iPad, not in a store. Overall, I don't think Azz cares about sales as much as he cares about telling the story he wants to tell.

    Personally, I think sales have suffered a bit (even above 30'000 is good these days) because one failing of the book is that the art isn't consistent. Chiang should've drawn every issue from day one, because the other artists filling in for him aren't anywhere near his level and its not a consistent look. Inconsistent art can hurt sales a lot.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Tiara View Post
    Yes it was, but Sacrifice is what made his numbers rise even faster and that story was a superhero adventure.

    It's also interesting to note that Superman/Wonder Woman sells better than Superman's main solo title. If DC really wanted to make money off their poster boy, the book would be Batman/Wonder Woman.
    "Sacrifice" was a story that was a part of a crossover and guest starred Superman. And the controversy with her breaking Maxwell Lord's neck. Of course his numbers rose under that.

    And of course Superman/Wonder Woman sells better than the Superman book, fans of both characters read it, especially WW fans that don't like the Azz book. I can't stand the book or the relationship and think its simplistic...but I get why others would like it.

    a Batman/WW book would'nt make as much sense, given the power sets of both characters along with how they operate so differently.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheetah View Post
    Well WW has had critically acclaimed runs before those are just few and far between. Which of the runs have you read out of curiosity?
    I said nothing about critically acclaimed runs. Why are you bringing that up?

    As for what Ive read, the Perez and Rucka ones were good, Perez being really good in his day, but everything else was pretty sub- par. Overall WW as a concept with the way she was was hardly ever fully got my attention, as I thought she lacked a sense of realism and any level of grittiness. Characters who are written to be more of an ideal than an actual character have always mostly bored me, which is why Im excited when a creator comes along that takes said character and that world out of their long-standing idealistic and consistent concepts and standing, like Azz did with WW.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redwing View Post
    I said nothing about critically acclaimed runs. Why are you bringing that up?

    As for what Ive read, the Perez and Rucka ones were good, Perez being really good in his day, but everything else was pretty sub- par. Overall WW as a concept with the way she was was hardly ever fully got my attention, as I thought she lacked a sense of realism and any level of grittiness. Characters who are written to be more of an ideal than an actual character have always mostly bored me, which is why Im excited when a creator comes along that takes said character and that world out of their long-standing idealistic and consistent concepts and standing, like Azz did with WW.
    The reason I brought it up is that people tend talk like Azz is the only writer who only ever wrote a good WW run and alot of them haven't read much WW in the past.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheetah View Post
    The reason I brought it up is that people tend talk like Azz is the only writer who only ever wrote a good WW run and alot of them haven't read much WW in the past.
    To them it may be the only good WW run. Or the change in her world and status quo in this run may be what interests them, where the other runs kept it established. it's a matter of opinion.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Tiara View Post
    Wonder Woman 31 $2.99 DC 30,655

    Superman/Wonder Woman 8 $3.99 DC 47,803

    It seems WW in a superhero setting sells very well, even when one has to pay an extra dollar for the inclusion of Superman.

    The current 30,655 is roughly 15,000 less than Greg Rucka sold at his peak, while telling a superhero based story, as opposed to a mythological one. Heinberg's superhero fare sold even better. Therefore there's no reason to think a change in tone wouldn't sell if written well.
    rucka wad selling 48 k with xover, more than smww with a xover and gimmick relationship

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Tiara View Post
    Wonder Woman 31 $2.99 DC 30,655

    Superman/Wonder Woman 8 $3.99 DC 47,803
    Please be kidding with that.

    The current 30,655 is roughly 15,000 less than Greg Rucka sold at his peak, while telling a superhero based story, as opposed to a mythological one. Heinberg's superhero fare sold even better. Therefore there's no reason to think a change in tone wouldn't sell if written well.
    Please be kidding with that also.
    I said it's selling better than everage for a Wonder Woman book (SM/WW is a Superman book, by the way). How is claiming that it sells more at rare peaks in any way at all a counterarguement to that?
    Last edited by Carabas; 06-28-2014 at 02:50 PM.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksun View Post
    rucka wad selling 48 k with xover, more than smww with a xover and gimmick relationship
    my bad, Rucka did well with tie ins from infinite crisis, it wasn't a crossover like doomed. WW wasn't essential reading.
    34 Wonder Woman 226 $2.50 DC 45,665. it was his last issue.

    a Batman/WW book would'nt make as much sense, given the power sets of both characters along with how they operate so differently.
    this is nosense, so why we have batman/superman. the differences is what make the team ups cooler.

    Olympian gods are obligatory.
    Zola I would like her to show up sometimes.
    Dessa and Aleka too

    Strife is a rockstar from this book, always good.

    Orion-- Great character and great chemistry with WW. creators should use him for more cheesecake, he is a promising character in this. New Gods are always cool thing to have a relation, specially when something big will happen with them

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