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  1. #106
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Yep, damn good visual.


    Dude, just stop. We can disagree without resorting to sarcasm and condescension. First off, being morally grey as a character has not a damn thing to do with a costume, it's in the damned writing where the real touch stones of morality come into play. And second off, like Holt said, the messed up face is far more important than wearing some clothes he put on a decade or two ago in story. Dear lord, even in the 1800s people got new outfits every decade or so.
    Dude, in real life people wear stuff you don't like (or to piss you off) all the time. You can always turn your head. The uniform says something about the characters attitude and is just fine for comics and TV

  2. #107
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batnbreakfast View Post
    Dude, in real life people wear stuff you don't like (or to piss you off) all the time. You can always turn your head. The uniform says something about the characters attitude and is just fine for comics and TV
    Dude, this isn't real life. And even in real life those people you mentioned wear other things too.

  3. #108
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    Do you guys have the same general feelings towards Enemy Ace?

  4. #109
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    In Westerns, the archtypical hero is usually implied to be a Confederate soldier. The reason in the story being because the war was so devastating to the south, that many Confederate soldiers returned home to destroyed estates and dead family and therefore had no reason to remain in the South. This is also based on a broader historical trend of migration during this period, though most people travelling to the 'West' were not Southerners. So the reason why Jonah Hex is a Confederate soldier, and broadly why most Westerns have former Confederate soldiers, is a form of Confederate revival.

    Also, the character dates to 1970...around the same time most of the Confederate statues were created. I can't speak to the authorial intent in the part of its creators of course, but this character slots into a general trend of the time.
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  5. #110
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueElf94 View Post
    Do you guys have the same general feelings towards Enemy Ace?
    If Enemy Ace were wearing a Nazi uniform, probably, but he's not. Von Hammer was a WW1 ace. That was the Kaiser, not Hitler.

    That said, there have been stories told about Enemy Ace set during WW2 that dealt with him fighting for Germany once again under the Nazis.

    It all really depends on the story. I don’t think DC should pretend Jonah Hex didn't fight for the Confederacy, either. That's a fundamental part of his character, that he was on the losing side of a bloody war. I don’t think it's necessary for him to still be wearing that Confederate uniform as his default look any longer though unless the creators want to use it as a springboard for an interesting story.

  6. #111
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Dude, this isn't real life. And even in real life those people you mentioned wear other things too.
    Maybe we should put pants on Godzilla. His look offends me

  7. #112
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    If Enemy Ace were wearing a Nazi uniform, probably, but he's not. Von Hammer was a WW1 ace. That was the Kaiser, not Hitler.

    That said, there have been stories told about Enemy Ace set during WW2 that dealt with him fighting for Germany once again under the Nazis.

    It all really depends on the story. I don’t think DC should pretend Jonah Hex didn't fight for the Confederacy, either. That's a fundamental part of his character, that he was on the losing side of a bloody war. I don’t think it's necessary for him to still be wearing that Confederate uniform as his default look any longer though unless the creators want to use it as a springboard for an interesting story.
    The Germans of WW I were just as bad as the Germans of WW II. They did not have the Swastika or Camps but nationalism was huge then. Hail Hydra all the way.

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    If Enemy Ace were wearing a Nazi uniform, probably, but he's not. Von Hammer was a WW1 ace. That was the Kaiser, not Hitler.

    That said, there have been stories told about Enemy Ace set during WW2 that dealt with him fighting for Germany once again under the Nazis.

    It all really depends on the story. I don’t think DC should pretend Jonah Hex didn't fight for the Confederacy, either. That's a fundamental part of his character, that he was on the losing side of a bloody war. I don’t think it's necessary for him to still be wearing that Confederate uniform as his default look any longer though unless the creators want to use it as a springboard for an interesting story.
    Yeah, he should ditch the Confederate uniform.

    There’s nothing about that’s fundamental to the character.
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  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by manduck37 View Post
    Hex was very clearly against slavery. He surrendered to the Union Army after the Emancipation Proclamation, as he couldn't abide by the Confederacy's support of slavery. So yes, Hex was a Southerner, a Confederate Soldier, and against slavery or treating anyone as less than equal. He's a complex guy with a good heart. Thus, a great character.
    This right here!
    I was never much of a fan, but I gave #1 a try of the Gray & Palmiotti launch and I was HOOKED. They gave us, hands down, not just some of the the BEST Jonah Hex books in the character's history but some of the best comic books period. It was consistently EXCELLENT with every monthly issue a damn near masterpiece.
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  10. #115
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batnbreakfast View Post
    The Germans of WW I were just as bad as the Germans of WW II. They did not have the Swastika or Camps but nationalism was huge then. Hail Hydra all the way.
    It's the camps that make the big difference there. While the Kaiser's German was certainly bad and had a lot of guys who would later become Nazis, they weren't committing genocide or conducting horrific medical experiments on the scale that we got during WW2.

    Granted, I'm no WW1 historian...

  11. #116
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    I just wanted to point out that in the 1970s comics, Jonah wore the grey jacket and grey stetson, but there was no hat badge, ranks or other insignia. Contrast that with Turnbull's men who still had their hat badges and ranks. The visual message was that Jonah was a disgraced soldier, likely drummed out. He was supposed to be an anti-hero.

    If he wore insignia associated with the Confederacy, I could see the point. But wearing grey clothes--the reasoning seems a bit threadbare.

  12. #117
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    It's the camps that make the big difference there. While the Kaiser's German was certainly bad and had a lot of guys who would later become Nazis, they weren't committing genocide or conducting horrific medical experiments on the scale that we got during WW2.

    Granted, I'm no WW1 historian...
    Yes, there is a reason you don't see a lot of movies/games about WWI, because unlike WWII where one side was very much so vile that it's easy to use them as simple enemies (the Axis) WWI was far more complex, with tensions brewing over forty-for years at least on the Western Front (from the Franco-Prussian War of 1870 to 1914 basically) where all sides resorted to violent nationalism and bellicose spirit. I mean, those whole 44 years are called La Revanche in French ("the revenge") because the Third Republic spent all this time preparing the consciousness of the citizens that someday, there would need to be a war with Germany to get back Alsace-Lorraine and avenge the dead and defeated of 1870, to make them pay for the excruciating debt and humiliations they had put on France.

    44 fucking years spent drilling that everywhere, from the village closest to the border with Germany to the most remote, and even the colonies, that "our ancestors are the Gauls" that "the sons of Louis Le Germanique and Charles le Chauve" (the heirs of Charlemagne, the former inheriting East Francia - would be Germany - and the latter West Francia - would be France) hated each other guts since times immemorial, etc. And it was true of every nation in Europe at that time. Everyone was just waiting for a reason to go to war.

    WWII is a lot more clear cut.

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    It's the camps that make the big difference there. While the Kaiser's German was certainly bad and had a lot of guys who would later become Nazis, they weren't committing genocide or conducting horrific medical experiments on the scale that we got during WW2.

    Granted, I'm no WW1 historian...
    I should've been clearer on my question regarding Enemy Ace. As you pointed out, Von Hammer served in both World Wars (though primarily being a WWI character). Ennis' "War In Heaven" depicted his shock and disgust at what transpired at Dachau, ultimately turning himself in to Easy Co. I see parallels in his disillusionment as part of the Luftwaffe with Jonah's disillusionment with the Confederacy.

    I wasn't really trying to make a point about his uniform, the question was geared towards those who seem generally uncomfortable with Hex due to his Confederate roots.

  14. #119
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batnbreakfast View Post
    Maybe we should put pants on Godzilla. His look offends me
    No it doesn't. Sarcasm is not a great debate tactic.

  15. #120
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Easy - have him get some other clothes. Boom, done. No need to ditch a good character over as easy a fix as what he wears.
    A valid point.
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