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  1. #1
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Default Earth 2, the JSA and September releases

    Yeah, I'm an old-school JSA fan. I need a place to rant about them. Feel free to join me with your comments and speculation.

    DOCTOR FATE #16
    Written by PAUL LEVITZ
    Art by SONNY LIEW
    Cover by BRENDAN MCCARTHY
    In this climactic concluding chapter, chaos reigns as New York City is plunged into darkness and terrifying mummies rise to wreak havoc on the streets. And in the center of it all, Osiris, has come to render judgment on Doctor Fate and the rest of mankind. But can even the combined might of two magic wielders be enough to defeat the God of Death?
    On sale SEPTEMBER 21 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED T

    EARTH 2: SOCIETY #16
    Written by DAN ABNETT
    Art by ANGEL HERNANDEZ
    Cover by BRUNO REDONDO
    The Amazonian casket has the potential to remake Earth-2 and end the years of struggle and survival, but is using it too great a risk? The Ultrahumanite doesn’t care. In a last stand, the heroes must stop him from using it to shape a new reality where he is in control—or annihilate Earth-2 entirely. Don’t miss this turning point in Earth-2 history!
    On sale SEPTEMBER 14 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US RATED T
    It's been noted in the main releases thread that this looks like the final issue of Fate. If there weren't already a couple of books announcing final issue, I'd be willing to put my own money on this being Fate's last issue. And as we see in the Blue beetle solicit...

    Kent Nelson, the original wielder of Doctor Fate’s power, seemingly on verge of insanity, has he come to save Jaime as he claims...or will he try to eliminate the Blue Beetle, no matter the cost?
    It was old Kent (nu-old Kent?) in Rebirth, then. I don't think it's a big leap assuming that this Fate was a part of the same JSA that Johnny Thunder was a part of. I'm liking these two around. Their age makes it seem like there will be a legacy and future generations for the original Earth-Two heroes.

    As for Earth 2 (number 2 for post-flashpoint, word two for pre-Crisis), can the market really support a JSA on main Earth whatever it's called this week and an alternate version on Earth 2? I LOVE the original guys. I want them back. I also think the current small population rebuilding a planet is worth a series. But, will Jay. Alan, and Ted be able to double up and still get enough sales to keep both going? And if so, what about Helena Wayne and Kara Zor-L (I shall always ignore the e)? Is there even a reasonable way to fit them in with a main earth JSA?

    Personally I want to see both. I want to see Huntress and PG in both places as well, somehow. It's a damn comic book. Make it so. I am excited about the JSA heroes. More so than I've been in a long time.

    What does everyone else think?

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    Yeah, I'm an old-school JSA fan. I need a place to rant about them. Feel free to join me with your comments and speculation.



    It's been noted in the main releases thread that this looks like the final issue of Fate. If there weren't already a couple of books announcing final issue, I'd be willing to put my own money on this being Fate's last issue.
    I've heard a rumor that #19 will be the final issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    And as we see in the Blue beetle solicit...

    It was old Kent (nu-old Kent?) in Rebirth, then. I don't think it's a big leap assuming that this Fate was a part of the same JSA that Johnny Thunder was a part of. I'm liking these two around. Their age makes it seem like there will be a legacy and future generations for the original Earth-Two heroes.
    Except that the implication is that Johnny Thunder accidentally shuffled the then-active roster into Limbo, causing them to vanish until some point in the near future when the Thunderbolt brings them back.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    As for Earth 2 (number 2 for post-flashpoint, word two for pre-Crisis), can the market really support a JSA on main Earth whatever it's called this week and an alternate version on Earth 2? I LOVE the original guys. I want them back. I also think the current small population rebuilding a planet is worth a series. But, will Jay. Alan, and Ted be able to double up and still get enough sales to keep both going? And if so, what about Helena Wayne and Kara Zor-L (I shall always ignore the e)? Is there even a reasonable way to fit them in with a main earth JSA?
    I could see Mr. Terrific building a gateway back to Prime Earth and sending a team (say, Kara and Helena) back there to try to recruit some help. Alternately, the device gets triggered and Earth 2 gets rebooted, but Helena and Kara remain essentially unchanged. My own preferred scenario would be that the rebooted version moves the introduction of Flash, Green Lantern, etc. back in time by approximately twenty years to the early days of the original Apokalypse War, resulting in them being old enough in the present to have adult children. Have Earth 2 be the source of the children of the JSA for the most part, while Prime Earth's JSA is the time-displaced original.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    Personally I want to see both. I want to see Huntress and PG in both places as well, somehow. It's a damn comic book. Make it so. I am excited about the JSA heroes. More so than I've been in a long time.

    What does everyone else think?
    I'm not sold on two Kara PGs and two Helena Wayne Huntresses, especially with Helena Bertinelli being Huntress in BG&BoP. But I don't mind Earth-2 having Karen Spears d Helena Wayne while Prime Earth has Tanya Spears and Helena Bertinelli.
    Rogue wears rouge.
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  3. #3
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    I'm expecting Dr. Fate #17-19 (if they're still happening) to be a lead-in to JSA and the second wave of Rebirth, maybe even tying into Blue Beetle and Earth-2.
    "There's magic in the sound of analog audio." - CNET.

  4. #4
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post
    I've heard a rumor that #19 will be the final issue.

    Except that the implication is that Johnny Thunder accidentally shuffled the then-active roster into Limbo, causing them to vanish until some point in the near future when the Thunderbolt brings them back.

    I could see Mr. Terrific building a gateway back to Prime Earth and sending a team (say, Kara and Helena) back there to try to recruit some help. Alternately, the device gets triggered and Earth 2 gets rebooted, but Helena and Kara remain essentially unchanged. My own preferred scenario would be that the rebooted version moves the introduction of Flash, Green Lantern, etc. back in time by approximately twenty years to the early days of the original Apokalypse War, resulting in them being old enough in the present to have adult children. Have Earth 2 be the source of the children of the JSA for the most part, while Prime Earth's JSA is the time-displaced original.

    I'm not sold on two Kara PGs and two Helena Wayne Huntresses, especially with Helena Bertinelli being Huntress in BG&BoP. But I don't mind Earth-2 having Karen Spears d Helena Wayne while Prime Earth has Tanya Spears and Helena Bertinelli.
    Yeah, It looks like Johnny did use the Tbolt to bring the JSA someplace. I've said before, having the JSA skipping over a few decades. The trick I like, though, is not to bring them to the present, but to a point a few years before the current heroes appear. What this does is to let them exist now, have their offspring, families, and legacies but eliminates the time from WWII problem. Basically Captain Americaing them.

    Helena and Kara as part of the originals, though, are more problematic to me. I suppose when memories are restored of the lost years, it's very possible they spend years with an older JSA in the present day. I could also see Tanya and/or Helena B as part of the team also. I'm not familiar with post FP Helena B, though. Is she similar to the pre-Flashpoint version?

    If the 19 issues for Fate rumor is true (I hadn't heard that), I'd guess DC was setting up Khalid for something. Kent's already publically announced for Beetle, and I doubt Levitz would be writing Khalid's doom. It's personal speculation, I have no proof or evidence, feel free to disagree. The Earth 2 book, however is a total mystery to me. Continuing as is? Ending and fading from sight? Making another quantum directional change? I don't know. I'd love to see a more Image like, ;ess traditional superhero series here with occasional crossovers with the originals. The two Jay's meeting in Convergence was my favorite part of that series. I'm more excited to see the Jays than I am either Jay meeting Barry. I could also believe that Earth 2 could be redone as a more traditional earth-Two world. I think it's less likely though.

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    I wouldn't put Tanya Spears or Helena Bertinelli on the JSA; they belong there about as much as Katar Hol or Hal Jordan does.
    Rogue wears rouge.
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  6. #6
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    If they plan to end the series, they could make Earth-2 be recreated into a more traditional Earth-Two type world just in order to use it as backstory to feature Powergirl in the main Earth JSA eventually. The current version would have no reason to be a member, but in a modified world they could use a restored memories excuse or even the past itself being changed.

    If they want to keep Earth-2 alongside the reborn JSA though, I'm not sure where this plot of possibly changing the world would lead to. If they focus on making Earth-2 more like the original Earth-Two it seems like they'd be clashing with the classic-type JSA in the main Earth. On the other hand, Earth-2 at this point is very different from the original, so changing it even further seems pointless.

    Although maybe a 'clash' could work? If both books survive, fine. If one of them survives by itself, keep it going and cancel the other. If both are struggling, then cancel the worst performing one and give all the attention to the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    And if so, what about Helena Wayne and Kara Zor-L (I shall always ignore the e)?
    That's basically a small detail, but it really annoys me. Why couldn't they even keep the "L" names? Various writers seemed to use Earth-2 for 90s nostalgia as far as the Superman family goes (N52 Earth-2 Superman had living parents, apparently never had the early attitude of New52's Superman, had the "El" name, worked for the Daily Planet) which was pretty odd.
    Last edited by NeonZ; 06-22-2016 at 04:44 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post
    I wouldn't put Tanya Spears or Helena Bertinelli on the JSA; they belong there about as much as Katar Hol or Hal Jordan does.
    I'll go along with that.

    I had to look up Tanya Spears to see who she was and as far as I can see no JSA connection at all.

    Helena Bertinelli was only created to allow use of the Huntress when Helena Wayne was off the table following Crisis. It would be like suggesting Damian Wayne replace Dick in the JSA.

    There are already dozens of legacy heroes around after Geoff's JSA run, we really don't need anymore modern members added there are loads already.

    Give the originals chance to shine and there is always the All-Star Squadron if you want more numbers.

  8. #8
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    Maybe the Thunderbolt sent the JSA to Earth-2 where their lives were re-written? Think Marvel's Heroes Reborn and Heroes Return.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post
    I wouldn't put Tanya Spears or Helena Bertinelli on the JSA; they belong there about as much as Katar Hol or Hal Jordan does.
    Agreed. I'm not very knowledgeable about the JSA (something that I'd like to change) but they seem really out of place, especially Tanya.

    I should check out Geoff Johns JSA run to prep me for the new series. Any other runs worth checking out?

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