Detective Comics #935 discussion (spoilers!)

[Atlanta96]

I was surprised by seeing Steph living on her own, and Steph and Tim in bed - I think of them as younger than this would suggest - and also by the whole "scholarship" subplot. When was the last time we saw Tim going to school? He seemed to drop the whole thing for years while he ran around with the Teen Titans, which seemed to be his whole life. Suddenly he's getting a scholarship to go to - college? Grad school? And his legal guardian, the best detective in the world, doesn't know anything about it.

Since almost half of American teens will engage in... intimate activity by the time they graduate high school, I'm not surprised to see Tim and Steph doing it. Especially since they both engage in adrenaline boosting physical activity pretty often. And I agree that Bruce probably knows about the scholarship already and is waiting for Tim to admit it himself.

[Nix Uotan]

So how does Kate wind up Jewish? Are all the Kanes? I suppose Jacob's first wife could have been Jewish (which would make Kate Jewish, by traditional Jewish law), and maybe he even converted. But I have to admit, I expected the familial relationship between Kate and Bruce to be a little more distant than first cousins. And what does this say about Bette and Bruce's relationship?

(Oh, I wish they could include Bette in some of this - as Flamebird, not "Hawkfire," a change that was a real disappointment to me.)

I was surprised by seeing Steph living on her own, and Steph and Tim in bed - I think of them as younger than this would suggest - and also by the whole "scholarship" subplot. When was the last time we saw Tim going to school? He seemed to drop the whole thing for years while he ran around with the Teen Titans, which seemed to be his whole life. Suddenly he's getting a scholarship to go to - college? Grad school? And his legal guardian, the best detective in the world, doesn't know anything about it.

Hmmm, I had forgotten about that. But maybe Jacobs first wife was Jewish as you said? But yeah, I do wish Flamebird returned. Kate's 'training' this team and forgetting Bette who was training under her? I would have thought she would have said 'ok but I want Bette on the team'. It's kind of why I'm disappointed that they added Clayface here. I'm sure they will do some interesting thing with him but he will just revert back to villainy simply because it's Clayface.

[Caivu]

Hmmm, I had forgotten about that. But maybe Jacobs first wife was Jewish as you said? But yeah, I do wish Flamebird returned. Kate's 'training' this team and forgetting Bette who was training under her? I would have thought she would have said 'ok but I want Bette on the team'. It's kind of why I'm disappointed that they added Clayface here. I'm sure they will do some interesting thing with him but he will just revert back to villainy simply because it's Clayface.

In fairness, we have no idea where Bette is now. She could very well not be in Gotham anymore.

[ispacehead]

With the exception of Batwoman, the characters in this book are much stronger in supporting roles, than in regular recurring ones.

This book is cluttered with too many characters for my taste, but I'm willing to see where it's going.

[BFF]

With the exception of Batwoman, the characters in this book are much stronger in supporting roles, than in regular recurring ones.

This book is cluttered with too many characters for my taste, but I'm willing to see where it's going.

'Tec isn't usually a team book, but if you judge by most team books, the numbers of characters is pretty normal. We're being asked to follow 6 team members, right? And their enemies.

[Harpsikord]

With the exception of Batwoman, the characters in this book are much stronger in supporting roles, than in regular recurring ones.

This book is cluttered with too many characters for my taste, but I'm willing to see where it's going.

Cass, Steph, and Tim all had books that were critically acclaimed at least at one point and sold mostly well for solo titles.

And I mean... Batman...

I can't argue about Clayface, though, but he's literally not gotten a spotlight like this ever before.

[godisawesome]

Especially Tim; at 210 solo issues that were published monthly, he's easily the most prolific comic character not named Bruce Wayne here.

I do kind of agree it's cluttered but in the sense that this book seems to be taking up a slot that really should be at least three books: Batwoman, Red Robin, and Detective, with more than a bit of possibility for at least a Batfamily book featuring Cass and Steph.

[heyevaxx]

Great issue, JTIV is nailing the character's voices and the overall Batfam team up vibe. And I really liked the art again.

There are some great Cass bits in this one.

Of all the fighters in the sim, only Cass is helping Tim stand up, protecting Steph, and still able to dish out major stompage. Kate's chew out of Cass on the one hand says she can't fight everyone's battle, while on the other hand acknowledges that Cassie in a fighting class above the rest. I think JTIV threaded a needle with this here, giving something for Cass to be better at without having her get beat up. And while she is not as good as her old best (note her torn facemask), she is still an awesome fighter.

Plus, the bit with her popping up in Steph/Tim's window is gold! Steph tells her she needs to chew out Tim and Cassie just smiles and swings away. Did Cass' body reading pick out something else that was on Steph's mind? Old Cass could read more than combat stuff, e.g. what people are wanting or thinking strongly plus detecting lies. Maybe Cass picked up on Steph's real reason for needing privacy.

I love how Cass just shows up and crashes where ever even though Bruce has a nice apartment set up for her. She grew up in a brutal, spartan environment so being with people she cares about is probably more important than a nice apartment in Gotham. And I like how she's still a pseudo-feral slob, lying on sofas and getting blood all over them! The ballet call out was nice to read too.

All the other stuff was great: Kate, her dad, Bats, Azrael, Leslie, The Colony, Basil, Tim and Bruce, and Tim and Steph. I don't mind JTIV skipping a long courtship: been there, done that. I'm looking forward to Harper making a cameo and getting into a Tim-Steph-Harp drama triangle. Maybe we'll see a bit of Harper when Cass is crashing there. I was fine with her in BRE and grew to like her character.

So far JTIV has done great, just like his BRE scripts. I'm excited to see how the whole Rebirth 'tec year plays out.

[Pohzee]

Dropped. 10char

[Caivu]

Dropped. 10char

Awww...

Why, if I may ask?

[Pohzee]

Awww...

Why, if I may ask?

Too many titles, this didn't keep my interest enough to justify $6 a month to me. Also worried that this book will go the Eternal route and become too big for its own good. Interested in the Tim subplot, so I'll follow the discussions and check back in for at least the crossover. I think that they are bringing him back to a more Robin-like role to graduate him to something new past RR. Not too much interest in the rest of the cast.

In all likelihood, I may end up trade waiting most of the Rebirth titles that I originally intended to buy.

[Atlanta96]

With the exception of Batwoman, the characters in this book are much stronger in supporting roles, than in regular recurring ones.

This book is cluttered with too many characters for my taste, but I'm willing to see where it's going.

Tim has had excellent solo runs as both Robin and Red Robin, and Steph and Cass have both had Batgirl series that rival Barbara Gordon's best stories. I don't buy for a second that they should only be supporting characters. And cluttered, there's only 6 main characters. Current Justice League has 8, Titans has 7 etc.

[dominus]

It's fine to see them dating, but I never cared for the idea of Steph being Tim's pre-ordained waifu. I really liked that detective guy that Bryan Q. Miller was setting her up with.

Commissioner Gordon was setting that detective up with Babs, and Steph also pushed the detective in that direction. He was just Steph's version of Commissioner Gordon on the roof, a cop that would work with her.

[Doctor Bifrost]

Since almost half of American teens will engage in... intimate activity by the time they graduate high school, I'm not surprised to see Tim and Steph doing it.

But not usually in mainstream comic books, when they're under 18, unless a point is being made. ("Teen pregnancy!" "Sexual exploitation!") I realize that's something of a meta-argument, outside of the narrative, but I'm not talking about whether this is right or wrong, or sets a bad example, or anything like that - just how old the characters are being presented as. Steph living on her own adds to that. So does Tim getting a scholarship to go to - what? College? Grad school?

(I have no problem with the idea that Tim Drake would graduate high school a year or two early - if we had ever seen in in high school since The New 52 started. Even if he graduated before he started the Teen Titans, disappearing for a year or two isn't the kind of thing that normally nets you a scholarship.

But of course, Tim's whole New 52 origin was kind of weird. Young Tim commits a crime and incurs the wrath of the Penguin, who seeks out revenge against the whole Drake family. So Tim's parents go into witness protection, while Tim is taken in by bachelor billionaire Bruce Wayne so he can, essentially, "fulfill his destiny" - go to college, become an Olympic athlete, start a high-tech company. But any of those things, along with being Bruce's ward, would put him in the public eye, and therefore in danger, even if he does change his last name. Add to this that, of the last two kids Bruce took in, one never went to college, and the next one died, and it seems to me Tim would have been better off with his folks.

And he never pursued any of that anyway. Until now - so maybe we're getting a retconning, or at least a reinterpretation, of his origin. Which would be good, because he came off as such an obnoxious jerk in it.)

[josai21]

Tim's N52 Origin was the evil machinations of Manhattan. One of the many changes that dastardly foe enacted upon the DC universe. Our beloved heroes are reverting back to their former personalities with the return of the scarlet speedster Wally West! Tune in next week to see if Wally West restores the memories of the World's Greatest Heroes with his magic touch!


*shrugs*

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.