Pitch your ideal end to TDK Trilogy

[batnbreakfast]

TDKR had a perfect ending for me (the last 5 minutes), loved that at least in the movies Bruce got a happy ending while Batman endured. Overall it is Nolan's weakest Batflick, though.
I was really looking forward to it and the fact that they gave us a storyline based on NML, Knightfall and Legacy is a really brave thing.
Bane is hard to take seriously in the movie imho, the final fighting is plain bad, Gordon is destroyed onscreen. They had such great ingridients and weren't able to pull 'em off.
The ending still is a real beaut.

What I personally hoped for was a small role for the Penguin (arms dealer) or Rutger Hauer becoming Black Mask (I friggin love both Hauer and Mask).

[SicariiDC]

TDKR had a perfect ending for me (the last 5 minutes), loved that at least in the movies Bruce got a happy ending while Batman endured. Overall it is Nolan's weakest Batflick, though.
I was really looking forward to it and the fact that they gave us a storyline based on NML, Knightfall and Legacy is a really brave thing.
Bane is hard to take seriously in the movie imho, the final fighting is plain bad, Gordon is destroyed onscreen. They had such great ingridients and weren't able to pull 'em off.
The ending still is a real beaut.

What I personally hoped for was a small role for the Penguin (arms dealer) or Rutger Hauer becoming Black Mask (I friggin love both Hauer and Mask).

Agree with a lot of this. In fact I choked up (and still do to a lesser degree) when bats flies that bomb over the harbor...and then gets to look down right happy with Selina in the end.

Plus I loved the score, especially the piano stuff.

I may be in the minority on here, but I loved it. Wasn't perfect but it connected with me. And made me look into knightfall, which led me into comics as an adult...to which, now I'm here in the trenches with y'all! Lol

Edit: would like to see a live action black mask at some point...maybe in the TV show?

[Spencermalley935]

Agree with a lot of this. In fact I choked up (and still do to a lesser degree) when bats flies that bomb over the harbor...and then gets to look down right happy with Selina in the end.

Plus I loved the score, especially the piano stuff.

I may be in the minority on here, but I loved it. Wasn't perfect but it connected with me. And made me look into knightfall, which led me into comics as an adult...to which, now I'm here in the trenches with y'all! Lol

Edit: would like to see a live action black mask at some point...maybe in the TV show?

I wouldn't say your in the minority. TDKR is a well-loved movie among general audiences, despite it's divisive nature among fans, mainly the purists.

[Aioros22]

I had no problem with Dick Grayson not appearing. However, I have no idea why they chose to use “John Blake” instead of “Tim Drake”; they are the same character in all ways that matter: the young detective who figured out Batman's secret identity, approached Bruce at a low point in his life with the intent of helping him get back on track, and ended up as Bruce's protegé.

They didn`t use any of the classic alias for Robin because the character is supposed to be an amalgamation of some main characteristics. As you point out, Tim`s figuring out Bruce`s identity is one. Being an orphan who grows up being a Cop like Dick is another. And him describing his similar rage growing up like Jason is the other.

That`s one of the aspects that I enjoyed the most about the film. It doesn`t let itself fall in a certain continuity tunnel and detract from the movie and at the same time it`s something purists will catch on pretty easily.

[batnbreakfast]

I may be in the minority on here, but I loved it. Wasn't perfect but it connected with me. And made me look into knightfall, which led me into comics as an adult...to which, now I'm here in the trenches with y'all! Lol

For some reason this makes me happy. Thank you Christopher Nolan

[batnbreakfast]

That`s one of the aspects that I enjoyed the most about the film. It doesn`t let itself fall in a certain continuity tunnel and detract from the movie and at the same time it`s something purists will catch on pretty easily.

Beautiful said. I'd send flowers but... long distance (probably)

[Flash Gordon]

I'd just like to see Batman take on some good mysteries and interesting crimes. Doesn't always need to be a super villian or the Joker or whatever.

[ispacehead]

How exactly was the franchise "crippled"?

It crippled the franchise in the sense that it delayed the cinematic establishment of the DCU by at least a decade.

It may have been Nolan's intended story, but it screwed Warner's ability to compete with Marvel in the theater.

Look at the state of the DCU cinematically in comparison to Marvel.

What a mess.

Totally crippled, and so far completely unable to turn it around.

I'd go further to say that the tone Nolan set for his Batman films has kinda screwed things up as well.

I don't want a gritty Superman movie.

Superman movies should be F.U.N. !

But now, in the wake of Nolan's films, everything is so serious. So angst filled.

And it just isn't working.

Marvel's running away with the game.

Don't get me wrong, I do love your doing a more traditional version of the Robin, though it does beg the question of "would he suit up as Robin in the same movie or approach Bruce for training at the end of the movie?

I hadn't written a script or anything, but I would probably start with Bruce's connection to the boy after the circus tragedy. Run it against Batman, up to his neck in crime and strange villains, every day becoming more overwhelmed by the task. Somewhere in the middle have him return home in terrible shape to be discovered by the lad.

Robin would only play a small part in Batman overcoming whatever challenge, but his small part would be integral. He follows orders to a t, and is partly responsible for overcoming the threat.

Probably end the film with talk of further training, perhaps a costume reveal, and a hint at what villain they may face next film.

The film should establish Robin as balancing presence, reminding Bruce of why he does what he does in a happy way.

The next film could follow a similar path, showing Robin's growth and development. Run Batman and Robin against a couple villains before Robin takes his first serious beating from Two Face, giving Batman reason to pause and reconsider his choice in taking such a young partner.

Robin is as much a part of the Batman mythos as the Batmobile, the Batcave, or the Joker.

I know Batman has quite probably the best rogues gallery of any superhero but superhero movies have been done in before by having too many villains.

That's just cuz it wasn't written properly.

They always waste time establishing unnecessary details.

I'm looking forward to seeing Killing Joke in the theater. Not my favorite Batman story, but I expect the film to be the best Batman experience I have in a theater.

[Spencermalley935]

It crippled the franchise in the sense that it delayed the cinematic establishment of the DCU by at least a decade.

It really didn't. Building a cinematic universe wasn't even a concept back then, neither was Marvel Studios. How exactly was WB supposed to build something when the idea had never been brought up before?

It may have been Nolan's intended story, but it screwed Warner's ability to compete with Marvel in the theater.

Again, not really. Warners screwed themselves with their generic by the numbers Green Lantern movie but that had nothing to do with Nolan.

I'd go further to say that the tone Nolan set for his Batman films has kinda screwed things up as well.

It's not Nolans fault that Zack Snyder chose to copy his tone for something it didn't fit in (Superman), That's on Snyder.

They always waste time establishing unnecessary details.

Considering it would be set in TDK trilogy which, in the first two moves, is a year one take, I don't really see how it would be a good idea to just throw in a bunch of villains randomly without rhyme or reason and act as though they've always been there.

[batnbreakfast]

It crippled the franchise in the sense that it delayed the cinematic establishment of the DCU by at least a decade.

It may have been Nolan's intended story, but it screwed Warner's ability to compete with Marvel in the theater.

Look at the state of the DCU cinematically in comparison to Marvel.

What a mess.

Totally crippled, and so far completely unable to turn it around.

I'd go further to say that the tone Nolan set for his Batman films has kinda screwed things up as well.

I don't want a gritty Superman movie.

Superman movies should be F.U.N. !

But now, in the wake of Nolan's films, everything is so serious. So angst filled.


I hadn't written a script or anything, but I would probably start with Bruce's connection to the boy after the circus tragedy. Run it against Batman, up to his neck in crime and strange villains, every day becoming more overwhelmed by the task. Somewhere in the middle have him return home in terrible shape to be discovered by the lad.

Robin would only play a small part in Batman overcoming whatever challenge, but his small part would be integral. He follows orders to a t, and is partly responsible for overcoming the threat.

Probably end the film with talk of further training, perhaps a costume reveal, and a hint at what villain they may face next film.

The film should establish Robin as balancing presence, reminding Bruce of why he does what he does in a happy way.

The next film could follow a similar path, showing Robin's growth and development. Run Batman and Robin against a couple villains before Robin takes his first serious beating from Two Face, giving Batman reason to pause and reconsider his choice in taking such a young partner.

Robin is as much a part of the Batman mythos as the Batmobile, the Batcave, or the Joker.


I'm looking forward to seeing Killing Joke in the theater. Not my favorite Batman story, but I expect the film to be the best Batman experience I have in a theater.

That speaks for itself, you are contradicting yourself here. Even Tim Burton said Batman is 2dimensional in Killing Joke and KJ is as dark a tale as it gets. You'd want a grim take with Batman in a guest role and call it an experience? Considering they started out with Mask of the Phantasm and ended on Bad Blood I'm not looking forward to KJ. Conroy and Hamill aren't able to save this one for me. I'd rather play Arkham City again.

I'd like to finally see Robin, too. We can agree here but you'd introduce him in the most formulaic and generic way possible. The circus doesn't work anymore onscreen in the 21st century (unless Robin is French and from Cirque de Soleil). They could rework Jason's origin or preferably Tim's but name the kid Richard. For me that would work much better.

Comparing Marvel films (and their success with all ages) to DC films... I just don't care. Both should go their own way much like the comics. Marvel is set in New York, has more day-to-day, DC is more about myths imho. Different tones for different heroes and companies. MOS and BvS didn't have Iron Man's success with critics but they both are more appealing to me than IM

[ispacehead]

It really didn't. Building a cinematic universe wasn't even a concept back then, neither was Marvel Studios. How exactly was WB supposed to build something when the idea had never been brought up before?

Marvel was well on the way toward building their franchise when TDKR came out.

The Avengers movie circled their wagons at the same time TDKR put Warner back to square one.

Or -1, if you consider the impact Nolan's films have had on their subsequent attempts.

Again, not really. Warners screwed themselves with their generic by the numbers Green Lantern movie but that had nothing to do with Nolan.

Man of Steel sucked, BvS sucks, when has DC made a GOOD super hero movie that can stand up against even Marvel's worst film? Well, I haven't seen Fantastic Four, but I hear that's about as bad as TDKR.

They made a good Thor movie for god's sake. How does that happen??

Heck they made 2.

Not great films, by any means, but entertaining at least.

Fun.

It's not Nolans fault that Zack Snyder chose to copy his tone for something it didn't fit in (Superman), That's on Snyder.

He does suck, but the bad decision is on Warner.

They wanted to follow the blueprint Nolan established.

Considering it would be set in TDK trilogy which, in the first two moves, is a year one take, I don't really see how it would be a good idea to just throw in a bunch of villains randomly without rhyme or reason and act as though they've always been there.

Uh... it's a good idea because it's Batman.

Also, I didn't say without rhyme or reason, I only suggested we don't need an entire film to establish each villain. Totally viable to make a movie in chapters, wrapping each as they build to a final ultimate confrontation.

(i.e. The Dark Knight Returns...)

That speaks for itself, you are contradicting yourself here. Even Tim Burton said Batman is 2dimensional in Killing Joke and KJ is as dark a tale as it gets. You'd want a grim take with Batman in a guest role and call it an experience? Considering they started out with Mask of the Phantasm and ended on Bad Blood I'm not looking forward to KJ. Conroy and Hamill aren't able to save this one for me. I'd rather play Arkham City again.

Like I said, not my favorite story, but imo, it will be a better movie.

Oh, and screw Tim Burton. He didn't get it right either. I don't really care what he thinks. His first Batman film is a B- on a good day. If I'm being generous, the second film is a D. Also on a good day. (A really good day- I did say I was being generous.)

I've enjoyed the Batman ani films without exception.

I don't expect to feel any differently about this.

Joker at his most chilling.

I fully expect them to put their own personal touch on the story.

Looking forward to their take on the joke at the end.

We can agree here but you'd introduce him in the most formulaic and generic way possible. The circus doesn't work anymore onscreen in the 21st century (unless Robin is French and from Cirque de Soleil). They could rework Jason's origin or preferably Tim's but name the kid Richard. For me that would work much better.

Like I said, I didn' t write a script, but I'd like a formal introduction for the classic Robin.

They've never done it properly.

Gotta be Dick.

[Spencermalley935]

Marvel was well on the way toward building their franchise when TDKR came out.

I was talking about when Batman Begins came out, when Nolan was beginning his film series.

The Avengers movie circled their wagons at the same time TDKR put Warner back to square one.

No, not really. However TDKR turned out, whether it be a conclusion or another "adventure continues" type story would have made absolutely no difference or impact in the current DCCU universe.

I haven't seen Fantastic Four, but I hear that's about as bad as TDKR.

TDKR isn't even close to being as bad as Fan4stic.

Uh... it's a good idea because it's Batman.

I think its a much better idea to go with one, maybe two villains and really develop them, instead of dropping a bunch of them into one movie.

[Scott Taylor]

TDKR was pretty damned good. It tied all the movies together and combined some of my favorite Batman stories. I'd have skipped trying to make Robin out of that cop guy, because it made no sense, and added Cass in there somewhere instead just to make everyone's head explode.

I do think that a proper fourth movie and way to really close out the Nolanverse would have been a proper telling of Miller's Dark Knight, and its a shame we never got that.

[phantom1592]

1) No major time gap. I'd pick up where TDK ended. Batman on the run, Cops chasing him. The way they skipped ahead and left that cliffhanger ignored was a crime.

2) No coming out of retirement. The idea of Bane vs. Batman should have been this epic level battle where Batman LOSING actually meant something. Showing off all the damage being Batman had done to Bruce's body made it look like he was lucky to even stand up, and his loss was inevitable.

3) A better 'rehab' bit. Climbing out of the pit?? It lacked something for me. Maybe if they had taken the earlier scenes with the knee braces and the working out and whatnot as his 'comeback' it may have been better... I don't know really.

4) Robin/Nightwing. I would have added him in. Either as a computer guy helping him out... or a fully costumed sidekick. I'm not sure. But teasing the rookie cop with a Robin name was pretty pointless. Either do it... or don't. Teases suck.

5) Bane would have been stopped by Batman.

[ispacehead]

I was talking about when Batman Begins came out, when Nolan was beginning his film series.

Each of the Marvel films closed with a hint at the next.

They had it mapped out well in advance. Certainly by the time TDK hit theaters.

The very first Marvel film hints at the formation of the Avengers. That was 2008. Only 2 years after Begins.

No, not really. However TDKR turned out, whether it be a conclusion or another "adventure continues" type story would have made absolutely no difference or impact in the current DCCU universe.

Had they gone a different direction, and planted seeds for what was next, of course it could have.

It just should have been taken from Nolan and redirected after TDK.

TDK was just not going to be 'one upped' in the same style imo.

TDKR isn't even close to being as bad as Fan4stic.

I haven't seen 4 yet, so I'll have to take your word.

But it was pretty darn bad.

I think its a much better idea to go with one, maybe two villains and really develop them, instead of dropping a bunch of them into one movie.

I don't know that I would do that in each film, but it seems to me like the shot in the arm that the franchise needed.

At least it would have saved us from Nolan's 'vision.'