What would have saved the New 52 Superman?

[DieHard200904]

If they ever bring back N52SM, I am going to grow a goatee and dress up like General Zod, and a picture of me as Zod will be the new Avatar.

[MajorHoy]

If they ever bring back N52SM, I am going to grow a goatee and dress up like General Zod, and a picture of me as Zod will be the new Avatar.

But I still won't KNEEL before it.

[adrikito]

If they ever bring back N52SM, I am going to grow a goatee and dress up like General Zod, and a picture of me as Zod will be the new Avatar.

if new52 superman is again superman(not only clark kent or another thing) someday.. I use a bearded superdad as avatar for 3 months.

[A Guy's Name]

If they ever bring back N52SM, I am going to grow a goatee and dress up like General Zod, and a picture of me as Zod will be the new Avatar.

Just how much of a dressing up are we talking here? Gonna go the full black latex karate gi/bath robe thing he had on too? Because I'd love to see that.
Or a video of you yelling "I WILL FIND HIM!" like DCEU Zod. Cause that's hilarious after NostalgiaCritic review video.

[DieHard200904]

Just how much of a dressing up are we talking here? Gonna go the full black latex karate gi/bath robe thing he had on too? Because I'd love to see that.
Or a video of you yelling "I WILL FIND HIM!" like DCEU Zod. Cause that's hilarious after NostalgiaCritic review video.

Either Zod will work, although I think Stamp is an easier way to do it.

[suemorphplus209]

If they ever bring back N52SM, I am going to grow a goatee and dress up like General Zod, and a picture of me as Zod will be the new Avatar.

DO IT!!! DO IT!!!! DO IT!!! Now it is going to be hillarious if he does come back and you actually do that!!!

[Francisco]

Berganza being booted after Doomed.

Berganza booted at the start of new 52 and replaced by Grant Morrison while Pak working as co-writer alongside him. Plus Johns never writing Justice League.

[mooch]

I liked the idea of Superman/Wonder Woman. I don't think he needed much fixing, a new status quo and a new creative team would have done it. And not killing him off, of course. I wouldn't have brought back old Superman either.

[DieHard200904]

I liked the idea of Superman/Wonder Woman. I don't think he needed much fixing, a new status quo and a new creative team would have done it. And not killing him off, of course. I wouldn't have brought back old Superman either.

I wanted him back at work and doing some regular superhero stuff. What is funny is I had about the same complaints about Superman not having his reporter job for prolonged periods with New Krypton and other stuff before the New 52 happened as well.

[manofsteel1979]

I wanted him back at work and doing some regular superhero stuff. What I'd funny is I had about the same complaints about Superman not having his reporter job for prolonged periods with New Krypton and other stuff before the New 52 happened as well.

On a somewhat unrelated note, I find it interesting that after seeing the DOJ ultimate edition, that the most significant cuts to the film's theatrical version was pretty much all of the stuff with Clark Kent as a reporter. One common thread with DC/Warners handling of Superman over the last several years is demphasizing Clark Kent mild mannered reporter. New Krypton and Grounded and the much of the New 52, plus the last two Superman films all suffered from this problem. Heck, the current status quo actually removes that element completely even in name as the current Superman is currently Clark Smith, farmer. I've theorized elsewhere that I think much of the stuff we've seen with the strange status quo shifts and changes since the later 90's is somehow related to ongoing legal saga involving Warners and Jerry Siegel's heirs. Mild mannered reporter Clark Kent, Lois Lane and the classic Superman uniform in it's rudimentary state (including the red trunks) are apparently the only things of the Superman myth DC/Warners does not own lock, stock and barrel, as those aforementioned elements originated in ACTION #1, which apparently are elements owned by the Siegel heirs.

In other words I don't think it's an accident the movie Superman costume is trunkless and the end of DOJ seems to 'kill' Clark Kent in a way that makes that identity's resurrection nearly impossible, and I don't think it's an accident that Nuperman gave us an armored suit without the red trunks, Rarely showed Clark Kent as a reporter and gave short shrift to Lois Lane through a good portion of the early New 52...and now Superdad is Clark Smith, farmer, married to Lois SMITH , neither of whom are reporters and as Superman, he wears...again...a trunkless costume.

Not that I really care much for the trunks either way,but I think their removal, and the lack of Clark Kent reporter, are not accidental and are likely related.


Ok...sorry for the slightly off topic observation.

[manduck37]

On a somewhat unrelated note, I find it interesting that after seeing the DOJ ultimate edition, that the most significant cuts to the film's theatrical version was pretty much all of the stuff with Clark Kent as a reporter. One common thread with DC/Warners handling of Superman over the last several years is demphasizing Clark Kent mild mannered reporter. New Krypton and Grounded and the much of the New 52, plus the last two Superman films all suffered from this problem. Heck, the current status quo actually removes that element completely even in name as the current Superman is currently Clark Smith, farmer. I've theorized elsewhere that I think much of the stuff we've seen with the strange status quo shifts and changes since the later 90's is somehow related to ongoing legal saga involving Warners and Jerry Siegel's heirs. Mild mannered reporter Clark Kent, Lois Lane and the classic Superman uniform in it's rudimentary state (including the red trunks) are apparently the only things of the Superman myth DC/Warners does not own lock, stock and barrel, as those aforementioned elements originated in ACTION #1, which apparently are elements owned by the Siegel heirs.

In other words I don't think it's an accident the movie Superman costume is trunkless and the end of DOJ seems to 'kill' Clark Kent in a way that makes that identity's resurrection nearly impossible, and I don't think it's an accident that Nuperman gave us an armored suit without the red trunks, Rarely showed Clark Kent as a reporter and gave short shrift to Lois Lane through a good portion of the early New 52...and now Superdad is Clark Smith, farmer, married to Lois SMITH , neither of whom are reporters and as Superman, he wears...again...a trunkless costume.

Not that I really care much for the trunks either way,but I think their removal, and the lack of Clark Kent reporter, are not accidental and are likely related.


Ok...sorry for the slightly off topic observation.

Don't forget that the New 52 did away with the Clark Kent secret identity with Truth. Nuperman couldn't be Clark Kent, reporter, anymore either.

[DieHard200904]

On a somewhat unrelated note, I find it interesting that after seeing the DOJ ultimate edition, that the most significant cuts to the film's theatrical version was pretty much all of the stuff with Clark Kent as a reporter. One common thread with DC/Warners handling of Superman over the last several years is demphasizing Clark Kent mild mannered reporter. New Krypton and Grounded and the much of the New 52, plus the last two Superman films all suffered from this problem. Heck, the current status quo actually removes that element completely even in name as the current Superman is currently Clark Smith, farmer. I've theorized elsewhere that I think much of the stuff we've seen with the strange status quo shifts and changes since the later 90's is somehow related to ongoing legal saga involving Warners and Jerry Siegel's heirs. Mild mannered reporter Clark Kent, Lois Lane and the classic Superman uniform in it's rudimentary state (including the red trunks) are apparently the only things of the Superman myth DC/Warners does not own lock, stock and barrel, as those aforementioned elements originated in ACTION #1, which apparently are elements owned by the Siegel heirs.

In other words I don't think it's an accident the movie Superman costume is trunkless and the end of DOJ seems to 'kill' Clark Kent in a way that makes that identity's resurrection nearly impossible, and I don't think it's an accident that Nuperman gave us an armored suit without the red trunks, Rarely showed Clark Kent as a reporter and gave short shrift to Lois Lane through a good portion of the early New 52...and now Superdad is Clark Smith, farmer, married to Lois SMITH , neither of whom are reporters and as Superman, he wears...again...a trunkless costume.

Not that I really care much for the trunks either way,but I think their removal, and the lack of Clark Kent reporter, are not accidental and are likely related.


Ok...sorry for the slightly off topic observation.

Well, it is how you feel, and I can't help but feel that something is going on right now. I just remember him as Clark Kent, doing something in the news business, be it Daily Planet or broadcasting. It was usually some alternate universe scenario where the character was implied to be permanently done with the journalism business. Now it kind of hurts when hearing Batman say "journalism is dead" in the animated Throne of Atlantis and then Superman eventually no longer becomes Clark Kent and not longer is a journalist. Don't ask me why I am kind of attached to Clark Kent, mild mannered reporter, but I am.

[manofsteel1979]

Don't forget that the New 52 did away with the Clark Kent secret identity with Truth. Nuperman couldn't be Clark Kent, reporter, anymore either.

Good point. Also the current Lois Lane situation. Both versions of Lois aren't reflective of her normal status quo. Nu Lois now has superpowers and will be a costumed Superwoman, and Pre 52 Lois isn't even calling herself Lois Lane anymore, is a mother and while she is a writer she is no longer a bona fide reporter for the Daily Planet. Granted, it seems Nu Lois may still technically be both,but I can almost bet you will hardly ever see her in the Planet bull pen or out chasing stories.

I know it's all conjecture at this point. However when one looks at the larger picture over time and map that against the various developments regarding that whole legal mess over the last 10 to 20 years...well, there are a whole lot of strange coincidences let's just say.

[SuperCrab]

On a somewhat unrelated note, I find it interesting that after seeing the DOJ ultimate edition, that the most significant cuts to the film's theatrical version was pretty much all of the stuff with Clark Kent as a reporter. One common thread with DC/Warners handling of Superman over the last several years is demphasizing Clark Kent mild mannered reporter. New Krypton and Grounded and the much of the New 52, plus the last two Superman films all suffered from this problem. Heck, the current status quo actually removes that element completely even in name as the current Superman is currently Clark Smith, farmer. I've theorized elsewhere that I think much of the stuff we've seen with the strange status quo shifts and changes since the later 90's is somehow related to ongoing legal saga involving Warners and Jerry Siegel's heirs. Mild mannered reporter Clark Kent, Lois Lane and the classic Superman uniform in it's rudimentary state (including the red trunks) are apparently the only things of the Superman myth DC/Warners does not own lock, stock and barrel, as those aforementioned elements originated in ACTION #1, which apparently are elements owned by the Siegel heirs.

In other words I don't think it's an accident the movie Superman costume is trunkless and the end of DOJ seems to 'kill' Clark Kent in a way that makes that identity's resurrection nearly impossible, and I don't think it's an accident that Nuperman gave us an armored suit without the red trunks, Rarely showed Clark Kent as a reporter and gave short shrift to Lois Lane through a good portion of the early New 52...and now Superdad is Clark Smith, farmer, married to Lois SMITH , neither of whom are reporters and as Superman, he wears...again...a trunkless costume.

Not that I really care much for the trunks either way,but I think their removal, and the lack of Clark Kent reporter, are not accidental and are likely related.


Ok...sorry for the slightly off topic observation.

Don't forget that the New 52 did away with the Clark Kent secret identity with Truth. Nuperman couldn't be Clark Kent, reporter, anymore either.

This is an interesting theory, and you guys may be right. I would just say, on the trunks thing, there is no legal trouble between DC Comics and the Batman creator(s)' estate(s) on the same level as the legal trouble between DC Comics and the creators of Superman (I remember a brief minor legal issue there- something about Bob Kane, but I believe it was resolved), and they got rid of Batman's trunks years ago. I think not using the trunks is an aesthetic choice. Legal trouble or no legal trouble, trunks are just viewed as, and made fun of, as underwear on the outside of your pants by the general public these days. If you want to appeal to the general public, it's a good idea to get rid of what really does appear to be underwear on the outside of your costume. I mean, a modern villain would be defeated just by looking at the trunks and keeling over in laughter, rending him unable to bring his dastardly plan to fruition.

Now, yes, trunks made sense in the 1930s, when people still got the association with "strong men" circus acts and saw the trunks not as underwear on the outside, but as strong men trunks. It communicated visually that this guy was physically very strong. But we're way closer to the 2030s than the 1930s these days, and almost nobody gets that connotation anymore, unless they are fans of Superman who have looked the matter up. It's just not a modern look, and a turn-off to potential new fans. Superman is a much better symbol of hope, and much more intimidating (storyline wise) to his enemies without the underwear on the outside- unless they were doing a Superman series set in the past, in which case, I might see the reasoning behind trunks, if it was in a time period where they'd have been understood as such by the general public within the fictionalized universe.

The rest of your conspiracy theory, I actually think stands a good chance of being correct. And it's had unfortunate results at times in terms of the quality of the Superman line, if it's been the cause of all these things. However, losing the trunks might have happened naturally even if it wasn't or hadn't been part of a legal maneuver, and should have happened. The time had come.

And I did like the armored high necked suit. They ditched those, though, which makes me wonder if it was really a legal thing, because if it was a legal thing, they'd either have kept them or replaced them with new innovations. You don't go back to stuff your lawyers have told you won't fly (No pun intended, given the subject matter), which they would have essentially been doing going back to the more "classic" SuperDad uniform.

If you really thought you imminently were going to lose the rights to any Superman elements present in the 1938 comics but not beyond, what you'd do is something like have new52 Superman change his last name and secret identity because the Clark Kent name and identity had been compromised by the Truth saga. He gets his new52 costume and powers back, but has to be Clark Jones, bartender, or whatever it is if you can't use Clark Kent, reporter, with the storyline explanation above. He'd let some of his friends like Jimmy know what was going on, and they'd come in and hang out at the bar. I'm not saying that's what I'd want to see, I'm saying if they really legally were having trouble with the usual setup, that's a much better why to handle it than SuperDad. I'd rather see him as Clark Kent, reporter, who is really Superman (New52 Superman with the New52 costume, presumably) than either of those scenarios if there aren't significant legal issues, though.

*Also* if you don't think you can use Lois Lane legally, then you just go with the Superman-Wonder Woman romance and make it work, which means you again you don't ditch new52 Superman. I am not sure if the switch to Lois Smith, which even in the storyline is a pseudonym for Lois Lane, would cut it. But you own Wonder Woman lock, stock, and barrel.

[Super-Wonder]

I don't know what to think of all of this.
N52 Superman is my favorite incarnation of the character, I didn't like the design in the beginning but it grew on me as did other aspects of the New 52 as a whole.
The 5 year void was a mistake and after all of this time there are still lingering questions about so many characters and that lost time period.

Perhaps the powers that be and have been are taking the whole genre of "Comic Books" too seriously and need to loosen up a bit and just have fun with it.
There's been a lot of fun elements lost for a long time. Let's just tell stories and make art and just try to keep an eye on what's going on for consistency, like if a character has been dead for 3 issues they shouldn't mysteriously show up in another title like nothing had ever happened.