The different Earths need to be divided

[Jim Kelly]

As I'm trying to get into the post-Rebirth DC continuity, I have to do these mental gymnastics to accept what is and isn't in continuity. I'm trying to come up with a way to divide up the different DC realities from 1935 to the present.

It would have helped if DC just gave a different number or letter to each new Earth continuity they introduced as they went along. But that ship has sailed--we now have multiple Earth-Ones, Earth-Twos, Earth-Threes, et al.

For example, as I read about Barry Allen, I find it hard to accept that this is either the original Barry Allen from Earth-One (pre-Crisis) or the re-invented Barry Allen(s) from new Earth (post-Crisis).

The solution I've come up with, thusfar, is to designate the different Earths as belonging to either:

• the α Multiverse (Alphaverse), 1935 - 1985;
• the β Multiverse (Betaverse), 1986 -2010;
• the γ Multiverse (Gammaverse), 2011 - present.

Thus original Barry Allen comes from Earth-Alpha-One (E-α-1). The original Justice Society of America was on Earth-Alpha-Two (E-α-2). The new Earth-One books are in the Gammaverse on Earth-Gamma-One (E-γ-1).

Even though the present Gammaverse includes continuities that resemble those from the Betaverse (post-Crisis/pre-Flashpoint) and even bits from the Alphaverse (pre-Crisis)--it's not those. It's a unique Multiverse unto itself. And even though there's a Superman who claims to come from the pre-Flashpoint Earth, he's too much unlike that actual Superman to be him--rather he's a Gammaverse distortion of that continuity, so he comes from an Earth yet to be determined (E-γ-?).

This is just my first stab at trying to impose some order on the confusion that DC has given us. I'm open to suggestions for other taxonomies we can use to keep things straight.

[GlennSimpson]

If you are looking to understand it well enough to functionally understand the stories, it's pretty much best to assume the following:

Every time there is one of these reality-shifting events, the old timeline ends and a new timeline starts. The new timeline will generally resemble the previous one in some ways but will differ in others.

So rather than trying to figure out if the current Flash is actually this Flash or that Flash, just assume that he is the "new52" Flash and a totally separate character from previous Flashes. In the same way that the TV Flash is different from any comics Flash, and the movie Flash will be different from the TV Flash. Sure, DC is trying to make it sound like there's some greater connection between the pre-Flashpoint and post-Flashpoint Flashes, because that appeals to a certain segment of the audience. But in terms of actually reading the stories, assuming they are different is much more functional.

Does that help?

[Slaughter]

Hypertime. Every Earth has its own timelines, pasts and futures and alternate timelines.

So, for example, if Earth-0 = Pre-Crisis E1 and Post-Crisis Clutter Earth, then you can acess them from Earth-0. They're the same place, but alternate timelines relative to each other.

Earth-2 can easily have the current Earth-2 and the Classic JSA world.

Earth-3 can easily have Pre-Crisis E3 (which we saw in Convergence: Crime Syndicate), Post-Crisis E2 (Morrison) and current E3 (which is dead).

Earth-4 (Pax Americana), as the "Charltonverse" Earth, also includes a "Classic Charlton" timeline.

And so on and on...

[Rod G]

If you are looking to understand it well enough to functionally understand the stories, it's pretty much best to assume the following:

Every time there is one of these reality-shifting events, the old timeline ends and a new timeline starts. The new timeline will generally resemble the previous one in some ways but will differ in others.

So rather than trying to figure out if the current Flash is actually this Flash or that Flash, just assume that he is the "new52" Flash and a totally separate character from previous Flashes. In the same way that the TV Flash is different from any comics Flash, and the movie Flash will be different from the TV Flash. Sure, DC is trying to make it sound like there's some greater connection between the pre-Flashpoint and post-Flashpoint Flashes, because that appeals to a certain segment of the audience. But in terms of actually reading the stories, assuming they are different is much more functional.

Does that help?

It bloody well ought to!

[Jim Kelly]

I understand all the explanations for why continuity is different now. But when we talk about this stuff, it's a lot easier if we can compartmentalize each stream of continuity--just for the sake of being understood and not having to engage in long digressions about what we mean.

Even if these designations are not used in the actual comics, it helps us fans to use universally understood terms to communicate with one another. Fans were doing this back before COIE, with proposed Earths like Earth-B and Earth-E that were never actually referenced in the comic books. And Mikishawm (John Wells) once sent me a file on Ralph Dibny appearances which had a listing of several Earths he had worked out, each with a different number (going into three digits for some).

I think it's safe to say, we are now in a different paradigm and thus a different Multiverse. So even when the present books reference stories from before Flashpoint or before Crisis--those stories are never the actual ones from those Multiverses, they are now new again, on new Earths in the present Multiverse. You can say Hypertime or alternate timelines--but that just gets us back to confusing different continuities, rather than sorting out the clear distinctions between them. It's like insisting on being vague, when we want to be clear.

[GlennSimpson]

So from that perspective, how is "pre-Flashpoint Earth 2" unclear?

[Lee Stone]

I think it's the phrasing, and in effect the marketing, of the different Earths.

"Pre-Crisis Earth-2" and "Pre-Flashpoint Earth-2" gives the illusion of being archaic or less important. In essence, they're dead universes.
Calling them "Alpha", "Beta" and "Gamma" switches the roles to where the newer Earths seem inferior to the originals.

I would actually call New52 "Beta"... but for different reasons...
Similarly, due to modern usage, the term Beta gives the idea of something that's not finished or perfected.
Meaning that the Pre-Crisis and Pre-Flashpoint universes were faulty and the current one is, as well... and won't ever be complete and finished until it reaches "Omega" or drops the terminology altogether.

[Jim Kelly]

I'm only going through the Greek alphabet because that's the only way I could differentiate them. And it makes sense to go in alphabetical order from first to second to third (α, β , γ)--delta (δ) would come next. It's good enough for science and mathematics and Star Trek.

Using the Roman letters (a, b, c) doesn't work so well, nor do the Arabic numerals. And I still want to use the numbers and letters that DC has given these Earths, so there needs to be an easy way to distinguish the different 2s and primes and such.

I'm open to suggestions for how else we could set these numbers and letters apart--so we don't have to take too long explaining ourselves when we throw around terms like Earth-One and Earth-Two. Cyrillic? Sanskrit? Hebrew? Runes?

[GlennSimpson]

I don't suppose the notion that nobody is going to follow any convention we come up with here would have any effect?

That said, I think whatever scheme you come up with needs to have two axis: 1) The number/letter designation of the Earth and 2) the period of "time" AKA what reboot was last/next. Thus "pre-Flashpoint Earth 2", which has the two factors. Not saying you have to use that particular phrase, just using it to illustrate the two axis.

[DGraysonWorldsGreatestSpy]

Here is how I split it. Aquaman did not become an atlantean king until 1,958 which is when World's Finest had been operating for about 6 years and 3 years before Earth-Two so I consider the time from 1,952 to 1,961 the Merging of the Proto-Earths in the Multiverse known before COIE.

1. Universe Action: Superman 1,938 to Legion of Superheroes in the year 3,000 & the Atlantis of this Universe is the First one ever for DC comics where Zatara discovers the Temple of Ancient Atlantis which holds the Flame of Life.
2. Universe Detective: Batman 1,939 to the Batman of the Future in 3,055 & the Atlantis of the Universe is the second one ever for DC Comics where Batman and Robin discover it and Robin is related to the Emperor which allows him to save Batman's life from execution at the Temple of Justice.
3. Universe All-Star: Wonder Woman & rest of JSA. I think Wonder Woman had her own Atlantis to but I have found few stories about them or any that the JSA went to including what future they had.
4. Universe Whiz - Captain Marvel Universe
5. Universe Charlton - Charlton Characters
6. Universe Quality - Freedom Fighters

1,952 to 1,961 Merging of All Earths.
Earth-One, Earth-Two etc. 1,961 to 1,985

Post-Crisis & the Multiverse/Hypertime (Most stories up to now get included in some way or fashion now)
1,985 to Present

[Jim Kelly]

I like the idea of using titles that are exclusive to the publisher and to the time period. I could see a MORE FUN universe--because that's a title that was only used in the '30s and '40s. The '50s and '60s could be MY GREATEST ADVENTURE. The '70s to early '80s would be GHOSTS.

[Lee Stone]

Lol @ Ghosts.
I'm sure that wasn't intentionally meant to be funny.

[colonyofcells]

1935 to 1985 - pre coie earth 2, pre coie earth 1, pre coie earth 3, etc.
1986 to 2010 - post coie clutter earth or pre flashpoint earth
2011 to present - new 52 dcyou rebirth earth 0.

[GlennSimpson]

1935 to 1985 - pre coie earth 2, pre coie earth 1, pre coie earth 3, etc.
1986 to 2010 - post coie clutter earth or pre flashpoint earth
2011 to present - new 52 dcyou rebirth earth 0.

At the very least, you have to divide 1986 to 2010 between before and after Infinite Crisis. Convergence notwithstanding, IC brought back a multiverse, with a new Earth 2, Earth 3, etc.

[Incognito]

DC does have multiverses when the Gentry informed that he destroyed Multiverse 2. So there are already multiverses in the DC Universe (or how I'd call it because the whole multiverse thing: DC Omniverse.). DC Rebirth's ten year was taken by Dr Manhattan (or maybe another force).

Here's how I'd do it.

DC Omniverse
- Multiverse 1: Post Flashpoint/New 52/Rebirth - present
- Multiverse 2: 1986 - 2011 (Pre-Flashpoint)
- Multiverse 3: 1935 - 1985
- Multiverse 4: DC Universe Video Games
- Multiverse 5: DC Universe Animated Original Movies and DC Universe/WB Animated TV Shows
- Multiverse 6: DC Live Action Movies and DC Live Action TV Shows