Comic Book Legends Revealed: Were Cyclops & Maddie Pryor Meant to Live Happily Ever After?

[MarvelMaster616]

It was more than a year later, not "just a few weeks later." UNX #143 and UNX 168 (First Series) both take place wholly or partly on Christmas Eve. Either #143__#168 all happened on the same day & night, or Jean had been gone at least a year when Scott met Madelyne. If Jean "died" on September 1, it was a year and nearly 4 months. That said, I do wish that the Maddie/Jean resemblance had proved to be an illusion cast by Mastermind.

I'll have to reread that issue to see for sure, but regardless of how long it was, it doesn't make the concept any less contrived. It's still incredibly forced that Madelyne just HAPPENS to look like Jean Grey. It's one thing to just have a passing resemblance. But remember, when Cyclops first saw her, he thought she was Jean. And yet we're supposed to believe that's a foundation for a healthy, meaningful relationship? There's no way it could've worked without being forced and that's exactly what Claremont did. It was only after Maddie was revealed to be a clone that this plot actually made sense. And when a clone actually clarifies something, you know it's a problem.

[MarvelMaster616]

There was nothing wrong with what Claremont intended. Cyclops was played out. It was time for Storm, Nightcrawler, and Colossue to have center stage without his boring influence. So him getting married off to Madelyne works as long as you don't shoehorn him back into the middle of the book. He always looked like a bastard when he turned on his wife and son for Jean..they've been trying to white wash and apologize for him doing that ever since.

Nothing was forced at all by Claremont...if you were REALLY some kind of fan of Cyclops back then, which wasn't really that many considering how the sales were pre Claremont, then no one care if he got shipped off. It was easy to "Sour" on Cyclops. He was a wannabe mutant Captain America and had no layers to him like Storm, Nightcrawler, Magneto, Rogue, Rachel Summers, and everyone else that was stealing the show heading into the 80s and mid 80s.

I agree that his intentions were good. He wanted Cyclops to get away from the X-men so other characters could rise up. There's nothing wrong with that. I totally support and understand that concept. It still makes no sense that Cyclops HAD to get married or that he HAD to marry someone who just happened to look exactly like Jean Grey. She could've looked like anyone. She could've been Lee Forester. But no. Claremont made her look like Jean Grey and that completely destroyed the concept. How can we expect to believe that a marriage founded entirely on the premise of Maddie looking like Jean is a stable, logical premise? The fact Cyclops thought Maddie was Jean when they first met proved that he was not over her. And it's not like he never intended to come back to Maddie after he found out Jean was alive. He did try to get in touch with her at one point, but thought she left him. That's not to say it wasn't a bad move on his part, but it's hardly egregious when you consider that his entire marriage was built on Maddie looking like Jean.

There's no way around it. It really was forced. The moment Claremont decided that Madelyne had to look exactly like Jean Grey, it became contrived, forced, and utterly asinine. If Maddie looked nothing like Jean, then we'd be having an entirely different conversation. Cyclops didn't have to get married, nor did he have to marry someone who looked like his dead girlfriend to step aside from the X-men. Chris Claremont is too brilliant a man not to see this and he has nobody to blame but himself for Cyclops' characterization the debates surrounding it.

[Kisinith]

So you're upset that an author dared to try to pursue some kind of artistic integrity and offer fans something actually good for a change instead of the same old lower common denominator crap? Interesting point of view.

I'll simply remark how frequent it is that readers say "How come superheros never retire or get replaced" new comic readers always are wondering this especially when it comes to X-Universe with all the different teams and generations. It is just an obvious thing to do to make a good story, the idea you're actually UPSET that someone would pursue it is maddening

ehem…

He's correct that it makes sense from a narrative standpoint and it honestly makes for a better story, in a different medium.

Chris Claremont saved the X-Men. This stuff and this board..none of this would exist had he not taken that property and put his spin on it. The legendary Phoenix Saga, the way he used the Inner Circle and gave them credibility, the introduction of Rachel Summers, the turn of Magneto, how he brought Rogue into the fray, had Storm being a real leader even without powers, God Loves Man Kills....the most praised writers on this board has never and WILL never have the genius to create those type of stories from the inside out like Claremont did. I was laughing at top 10 writers list with people trying to put Grant Morrison's laughable and silly run which was a Cyclops jerk party on the same level as Claremont. Claremont had Sinister get away with a ton of wild stuff and then the Marauders were formidable..the creation of the Acoltyes and the so called "last Magneto" story for Genesis that sold 8 million and left every other comic property in history in the dust.

All true, didn't deny that, HOWEVER he still screwed up in places, still made mistakes. If he deserves praise for his high points than he can endure the criticism for his low points. Jean dying and staying dead, eventually retiring and replacing characters like with Cyclops IS a better story than endlessly reusing the same characters, same plots. The problem is that like it or not, that was never going to fly in Marvel. His actions with Cyclops, Jean, Maddie and Wolverine after Jeans resurrection were petty and deserve to be called out as such.

[sureshot]

Their also the fact that Jean had and has many fans and they wanted her back from the dead. Even if it meant sacrificing Cyclops and Maddies relationship to do so imo. Like it or not that relationship was doomed from the start. I'm also going to assume that out of the two Maddie is the least popular. At least something was done with the character as opposed to killing her off or sending her into character limbo. I'm sure some here will say that was not the reason. Yet to me Jean death was the perfect exit for the character to stay dead. Same as Colossus imo. Yet fans wanted both back and they came back from the dead. That or writers really wanted to use both characters. Or a combination of both reasons.

[JasonEsta]

Jean Grey didn't have anywhere near that kind of fanbase back then. Not even close.

[Narasinha]

I think the intention of making Madelyne Pryor outwardly so similar to Jean Grey was to purposely stoke the mystery in minds of readers

*Especially* when it was revealed how she escaped a plane crash or something on like the exact same date Jean-as-Phoenix died. That was truly spooky and awesome writing because it was like "can this possibly be coincidence".

So yeah I actually think it was GOOD writing precisely because Maddy looked like Jean.

Of course she was never intended to be a clone.... clearly Cyclops and her were meant to basically fade into the distance or be referred to during X-vacations or occasional "consulting" which is exactly what was happening...

Until the horrible creation of X-Factor of course which messed up so much.

Not that X-Factor itself is not worth reading or irredeemably awful but yeah X-Factor is to blame NOT Claremont

"Never intended to be" is relative when we are speaking of less than 10 issues since the first mention of Maddie and the begining of the "clone plot" that is part of X-Factor.

And yes, for the exact reason you mentioned in your post, Claremont is to blame: In storytelling, you simply don't include such mysteries and subplots if you don't intend to do something, anything, about them. That's simply not done. Nobody can blame the following authors for having followed on those mysteries and resolved them even if that's not what Claremont had in mind. It's not because it's a comic that it shouldn't follow basic storytelling rules/conventions.

Without going as far as the Aristotelian rules (even if some authors would benefit from forcing themselves to use them, at least for a little while), what I mean is:
"Literary conventions are features or practices of certain genres that readers or audiences understand, recognize and accept as techniques to facilitate the plot. "

[Narasinha]

It was more than a year later, not "just a few weeks later." UNX #143 and UNX 168 (First Series) both take place wholly or partly on Christmas Eve. Either #143__#168 all happened on the same day & night, or Jean had been gone at least a year when Scott met Madelyne.

Yeah, more than a few weeks/months as Maddie walked out of the airplane crash "last year" and it happened the same day as Jean's death. But only a few hours/days after Scott got dumped by Forester

[sunofdarkchild]

In fairness to Claremont, the restoration of Jean Grey was the beginning of the 'dead doesn't mean dead,' 'marriage means nothing,' and 'everything resets to the status quo' problems comics have had for decades now. Before that Reed and Sue stayed married and had a son, Gwen Stacey stayed dead, Peter Parker didn't go back to high school, ect. I can't blame Claremont for not forseeing something which would become the precedent, especially years before his run ended. So many horrible trends in comics got their start because of that one stupid decision to bring Jean Grey back to life.

[Wiccan]

In fairness to Claremont, the restoration of Jean Grey was the beginning of the 'dead doesn't mean dead,' 'marriage means nothing,' and 'everything resets to the status quo' problems comics have had for decades now. Before that Reed and Sue stayed married and had a son, Gwen Stacey stayed dead, Peter Parker didn't go back to high school, ect. I can't blame Claremont for not forseeing something which would become the precedent, especially years before his run ended. So many horrible trends in comics got their start because of that one stupid decision to bring Jean Grey back to life.

At least they learn that keeping important characters >>> story. Because let's face it, it's the truth.

[Narasinha]

So many horrible trends in comics got their start because of that one stupid decision to bring Jean Grey back to life.

They "killed" and bring back Xavier like 10 times before that... sure, that was not for a long time and that was "planned" but let face it, bring back Jean is not the reason why they "regularly" kill characters in comics and bring them back later. The only reason why they felt Jean had to stay dead was the same one for having to kill her in the first place: She couldn't be a hero in the comic if she was responsible for the destruction of an inhabited planet. Once someone pitched a story that would separate her from anything that Dark Phoenix did, they were more than happy to bring her back. At least, with the "Phoenix stuff", Jean had some good reason to come back from death. Not like some other characters with whom they didn't even bothered to come-up with the begining of an explanation.

[sunofdarkchild]

They "killed" and bring back Xavier like 10 times before that... sure, that was not for a long time and that was "planned" but let face it, bring back Jean is not the reason why they "regularly" kill characters in comics and bring them back later. The only reason why they felt Jean had to stay dead was the same one for having to kill her in the first place: She couldn't be a hero in the comic if she was responsible for the destruction of an inhabited planet. Once someone pitched a story that would separate her from anything that Dark Phoenix did, they were more than happy to bring her back. At least, with the "Phoenix stuff", Jean had some good reason to come back from death. Not like some other characters with whom they didn't even bothered to come-up with the begining of an explanation.

There's a very big difference between fake-out deaths and real deaths. This set the trend of resurrections and death being meaningless. It showed writers and editors that they could get away with it, and they've ran with it ever since. The reason Jean wasn't brought back before has nothing to do with Shooter. It was because the man who had made the X-Men into Marvel's most popular property and who was guiding the franchise did not want to bring her back. If Claremont had at any point wanted Jean back he would have found a way to do it while pleasing Shooter. In the end the decision was made because Busiek valued his own fanboyism over good writing and storytelling, and it was presented to a very angry Claremont as a fait accompli. And it opened the metaphorical floodgates.

[Narasinha]

Gwen Stacey stayed dead

For a whole 2 years before they bring her back using clones. In the case of Jean, it's the clone that died and the original that came back. In the case of Gwen, it's the original that died and clones that come back. End result is the same.

In fact, it's Stan Lee that found Gwen's death objectionable and insisted that she was bring back one way or another (1). See, Jean wasn't the first one. Blame Stan Lee and Gwen.

[WallStreeter]

In a world of gods, magic, mutants, time travel, cosmic forces, powerful psychic entities, of course we can't expect every character who gets killed off to stay dead.

Particularly one who had died before and who got resurrected as the Phoenix. In fact Maddie was doomed from the start because she was made to look just like Jean, and was given so many coincidences that something had to be going on. She walked out of the fiery plane crash at the same moment Jean Grey decide. Her psychic shields where such that the almighty Professor Xavier could not read her mind (that was a big HINT). She instantly knew what Cyclops's favorite breakfast was and said she was a mindreader.

Later on, she rather quickly healed from being shot up by the Marauders.

If Claremont had intended to give Cyclops a happily ever after, he could have married him to Lee Forrester or Colleen Wing. Then again they still would have been killed off. Major characters like Cyclops are not permanently retired from the superhero business in comics, as the company makes money off KNOWN heroes. In fact some of Claremont's newer characters faded into obsecurity (Longshot) while Cyclops is still a major character.

[Gray Lensman]

I think having Maddie look exactly like Jean, paired with the gazillion coincidences made for a very, very bad concept. It is a testament to Claremont's skills as a writer that it worked on any level at all, to be honest. I blame CC more for his reaction to the aftermath than anything else, though.

[DavidMunroe]

If Claremont had intended to give Cyclops a happily ever after, he could have married him to Lee Forrester or Colleen Wing. Then again they still would have been killed off. Major characters like Cyclops are not permanently retired from the superhero business in comics, as the company makes money off KNOWN heroes. In fact some of Claremont's newer characters faded into obsecurity (Longshot) while Cyclops is still a major character.

He's a major character because a lot of fans have been held at gun point to support him in any way they can. A lot of fans haven't been given any choice in the matter, what with him constantly being shoved down the community's throats in appearance if not in name.

He could have been retired, and it could have been effective. Any other character could and should have received the same push that he did and the same lucrative following if enough effort was given and as you know it's not a formula that's respective to Cyclops or any other commercially prosperous character--except maybe in particular cases.