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  1. #5131

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    People don't like when I say this, but for me, Jim Lee is to X-Men what Joe Quesada is to Spidey. Claremont spent over a decade building up towards something and then along comes this guy who forces the writer off because he wants to replay the greatest hits.

    This is documented.

    I remember when the cartoon was announced, and this was months after we got Batman, which was very classic but contemporary. I thought X-Men would be like that... I was so sad when I saw they were taking their visual cues from Jim Lee.

    I maintain that this is would have been far better than crap like Omega Red, X-Cutioner's Song, Fatal Attractions, Onslaught, etc...

    https://nerdsonearth.com/2017/05/chr...e-mutant-wars/

  2. #5132
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Agreed 100. Jim Lee X-Men aint all that.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa, FOREVER!!!

  3. #5133
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    I would be perfectly happy if the Phoenix went away and never came back, or at the very least, stayed away from earth and was used as some cosmic character like Adam Warlock or the Silver Surfer.

  4. #5134
    Spectacular Member Ikari's Avatar
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    Ninja-Betsy. I know everyone is saying now how the transformation was offensive and stupid, but it unquestionably made Psylocke much more popular, turning her from B-lister to iconic X-men character of the era. But I didn't like it at the time and my opinion hasn't changed. Original Posh-Betsy always had interesting nuances going on how she dealt with becoming a superhero (which didn't come to her very naturally). After the transformation she became very flat. Ninja-Betsy was a one-dimensional bruiser. Also her psi-power seemed significantly reduced (which, I guess actually makes sense in retrospect if she had to split her power with Kwannon?). I think only remotely interesting thing she had was the brief crush to Cyclops which I thought was fairly well-written.

    I do think that the artists liked Ninja version much more - instead of having this fragile telepath hanging in the back, she could be now drawn in the frontlines kicking ass, and psychic knife certainly made an interesting visual.

  5. #5135
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMikey View Post
    I TOTALLY agree with that. And... the way writers treat the Phoenix, makes it... dumb, and unrealistic, for lack of a better term. You would NEVER see "The Force" in Star Wars get "obsessed" with a particular force user. Whom so ever is strong with the Force, can wield it. The Force/Dark Side of the Force, is apathetic and unconcerned with particular individuals. It is a consciousness which controls the flow of energy of life, death, good and evil. That's how the Phoenix should be treated.

    To me, it shouldn't be tied up with Jean Grey. We need to see someone brand new, non-Grey to come along, and give us a new perspective of the Phoenix Force, and it would be nice if the Phoenix is rewritten to be more like the Force, rather than this obsessive ball of angry energy that the writers portray it as...
    This also makes me think if the phoenix merged with another red head a million years ago and had all this passion for oden etc. Then it makes little to no sense the whole idea that the phoenix was so corrupted with emotions it never felt before due to jean that it went dark phoenix. Wouldn't a cave woman nomad have a much more violent soul than jean grey.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  6. #5136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Ninja-Betsy. I know everyone is saying now how the transformation was offensive and stupid, but it unquestionably made Psylocke much more popular, turning her from B-lister to iconic X-men character of the era. But I didn't like it at the time and my opinion hasn't changed. Original Posh-Betsy always had interesting nuances going on how she dealt with becoming a superhero (which didn't come to her very naturally). After the transformation she became very flat. Ninja-Betsy was a one-dimensional bruiser. Also her psi-power seemed significantly reduced (which, I guess actually makes sense in retrospect if she had to split her power with Kwannon?). I think only remotely interesting thing she had was the brief crush to Cyclops which I thought was fairly well-written.

    I do think that the artists liked Ninja version much more - instead of having this fragile telepath hanging in the back, she could be now drawn in the frontlines kicking ass, and psychic knife certainly made an interesting visual.
    Bah, the Asian psychic who trained with a crime-lord (her uncle Nguyen) to focus her powers to be more useful in close combat (a disrupting attack that, instead of controlling someone's mind, disrupts their own control of their own mind and body for a short time), and not require such concentration (so easily disrupted in a fight!) should totally have been Karma.

    Betsy could have stuck to the purple armor (and remained a Brit caucasian), and maybe picked up a physical weapon, and gone all psychic knight, instead, to greatly differentiate her from the other telepaths.

    And, later, there could have been some development where the original owner(s?) of that indestructible purple armor came along to reclaim it, and she had to prove to (them?) her worthiness to keep it... (And that it was the Reavers, not her, who ganked the original owner, in some unseen adventure in their past, perhaps?) But no. Plot seed abandoned.

  7. #5137
    Fantastic Member GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    This also makes me think if the phoenix merged with another red head a million years ago and had all this passion for oden etc. Then it makes little to no sense the whole idea that the phoenix was so corrupted with emotions it never felt before due to jean that it went dark phoenix. Wouldn't a cave woman nomad have a much more violent soul than jean grey.
    Totally agreed. I mean, the Phoenix Force is very inconsistent in how it functions, what it can and cannot do, they'll state the Phoenix requires a psionic host but it has taken on non-psionic and non-mutant hosts, like... what's up with that?

    There's a fan collab project focusing on bringing to life the perspectives of the fans, and create a consensus and constructs that make sense. We even have our own thread here, discussing what the Phoenix should be, how the story of a hero should be told, it's awesome. Honestly, I'm more enthralled with what we're doing to even care about the canon world and comic writers anymore.

  8. #5138
    Astonishing Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    The Giant-Size X-Men one-shots aren’t as good as everyone thinks — and some are straight up bad.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  9. #5139
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    The Giant-Size X-Men one-shots aren’t as good as everyone thinks — and some are straight up bad.
    that not unpopular. The only ones that have gotten universal praise are the Dautermann ones. The others got panned on here at least

  10. #5140
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    The Giant-Size X-Men one-shots aren’t as good as everyone thinks — and some are straight up bad.
    I was pretty sure that the general consensus was "they are ok" and for what i heard, they mostly exist to shocase the artist.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
    Wolverine, Venom Annual # 1 (2018)
    Nobody does it better by Jeff Loveness

    "I am Thou, Thou Art I"
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  11. #5141
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    All five GSXM one-shots were quite enjoyable.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa, FOREVER!!!

  12. #5142
    Astonishing Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    that not unpopular. The only ones that have gotten universal praise are the Dautermann ones. The others got panned on here at least
    That may be, but I consider even those to be not very good. Below just okay.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  13. #5143
    Mighty Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    The Giant-Size X-Men one-shots aren’t as good as everyone thinks — and some are straight up bad.
    Fantomex was the only one I liked.

  14. #5144
    Smart & Swift & Violent Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    Nah. The Phoenix Force shouldn't be the Force from Star Wars.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    that not unpopular. The only ones that have gotten universal praise are the Dautermann ones. The others got panned on here at least
    The Dauterman ones are bad too. They are just bad with fantastic art.
    "Cyclops loves wilted roses because they remind him of dead redheads."
    -Gail

  15. #5145
    Incredible Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Don't know if this unpopular or controversial, but I want the nation of Krakoa to stick around even after Hickman is gone. I think it'd be interesting to see the X-Men go back to more traditional superheroics while still having a space they can call their own.

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