Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[Agent Z]

The anti-woke backlash to X-Men 97 is disappointing but not at all surprising. The franchise has an undeniably progressive premise but the execution of that premise over the decades has also appealed to far right audiences, or at least hasn't exactly scared them away.

For as much as fans brag that the best X-Men characters are the women, it's no secret that the franchise's most popular and marketed character is Wolverine, a white guy who can best be described as a cross between Dirty Harry, James Bond and a slasher villain and whose solo stories contain questionable writing choices regarding women and non-white people.

That's not even getting into how the team originally consisted of four guys and one girl, all of whom were white. Or how four out of the five most prominent mutant leaders (Professor X, Magneto, Cyclops, Wolverine and Storm) are white men. Or how objectified women are (though that isn't limited to X-Men).

[Malachi]

The anti-woke backlash to X-Men 97 is disappointing but not at all surprising. The franchise has an undeniably progressive premise but the execution of that premise over the decades has also appealed to far right audiences, or at least hasn't exactly scared them away.

For as much as fans brag that the best X-Men characters are the women, it's no secret that the franchise's most popular and marketed character is Wolverine, a white guy who can best be described as a cross between Dirty Harry, James Bond and a slasher villain and whose solo stories contain questionable writing choices regarding women and non-white people.

That's not even getting into how the team originally consisted of four guys and one girl, all of whom were white. Or how four out of the five most prominent mutant leaders (Professor X, Magneto, Cyclops, Wolverine and Storm) are white men. Or how objectified women are (though that isn't limited to X-Men).

I think if one is to follow that line of thought we have to backtrack.

With Claremont the X-men became a much more diverse team, a team that could tackle the metaphor of outsiders better. With Claremont it also became a progressive book. Over more than a decade he steered the ship and it changed and evolved. But even before Claremont left it stagnated to a certain degree. A stagnation that only became worse as the years went on.

I think long term the best would have been for the title to keep evolving. New Mutants graduating to full X-men. Wolverine focusing on his solo, maybe become an avenger, but due to his longevity and popularity he would still return to the line regularly.

Others like Scott and Jean would have retired, freeing up spots for aforementioned new mutants. Gen X taking New mutants spot.

There would always be some sort of rotation of veterans and retirees returning for runs but mostly the core of the team would change and be reinvigorated with new blood.

Of course this is at odds with the rest of the MU were the teams don’t change. So Steve would interact with new X-men over the years while he stayed the same.

Maybe it would have been better if the X-office was a separate thing where characters could age and move on.

[Johnrevenge]

I'm not so sure if this has been talked before in this thread, but I'm gonna say it: I really hated how the X-men treated Stacy X because of her past. I found it extremely hypocrite from them as they basically opened their doors to murderers, criminals, terrorists and even genocides. But it seems that being a prostitute is much worse than all that kind of stuff for them. They basically treated her like if Hitler or Sadam Husein were better persons than her. The only exception was Wolverine which was the first time I really started to like him. Yeah, she could be headstrong sometimes, but it wasn't the first time an X-men with an explosive personality like her joined the group before.

I liked the irony that during Krakoa era, she was basically one of the most moral mutants on the island and wasn't afraid of calling out the hypocresy of those that have judged her in the past.

[marhawkman]

I'm not so sure if this has been talked before in this thread, but I'm gonna say it: I really hated how the X-men treated Stacy X because of her past. I found it extremely hypocrite from them as they basically opened their doors to murderers, criminals, terrorists and even genocides. But it seems that being a prostitute is much worse than all that kind of stuff for them. They basically treated her like if Hitler or Sadam Husein were better persons than her. The only exception was Wolverine which was the first time I really started to like him. Yeah, she could be headstrong sometimes, but it wasn't the first time an X-men with an explosive personality like her joined the group before.

I liked the irony that during Krakoa era, she was basically one of the most moral mutants on the island and wasn't afraid of calling out the hypocrisy of those that have judged her in the past.

Oh I agree. It was some seriously strange stuff because, well... it was also part of the "Xavier is a jerk" plot thread where chuckles was doing "ethically questionable" things.... like employing Mutants for various businesses. Including the one Stacy worked in.

Yeah part of Decimation was to get rid of the idea that Chuckles was rich.... BECAUSE he exploited other Mutants financially. Chuckles also financed a bunch of the stuff in the X-Statix book. Which gets SUPER weird when you try to figure out who's actually calling the shots. Did Chuckles recruit Ginsberg and O'Sullivan? Or are they representing an actual competitor?

[DarkMagnus]

Fall of X could been about Xavier leaving Krakoa and put in prison and Emma taking over the Krakoa and making Krakoa more amicable to the world.

That a really how you fall a X.

[Johnrevenge]

Oh I agree. It was some seriously strange stuff because, well... it was also part of the "Xavier is a jerk" plot thread where chuckles was doing "ethically questionable" things.... like employing Mutants for various businesses. Including the one Stacy worked in.

Yeah part of Decimation was to get rid of the idea that Chuckles was rich.... BECAUSE he exploited other Mutants financially. Chuckles also financed a bunch of the stuff in the X-Statix book. Which gets SUPER weird when you try to figure out who's actually calling the shots. Did Chuckles recruit Ginsberg and O'Sullivan? Or are they representing an actual competitor?

Wasn't X-Ranch secretly founded by board members of Worthingtong Industries behind Angel's back? I just checked some wikis and lore places and they point out that.

[Alan2099]

Fall of X could been about Xavier leaving Krakoa and put in prison and Emma taking over the Krakoa and making Krakoa more amicable to the world.

That a really how you fall a X.

If you want to replace Xavier with a more ethical person, Emma is not the character to use.

I'd actually really like to see Warren step up as a big public figure and fill the rich backer of the X-titles.

[DarkMagnus]

If you want to replace Xavier with a more ethical person, Emma is not the character to use.

I'd actually really like to see Warren step up as a big public figure and fill the rich backer of the X-titles.

nope! is not ethical what Krakoa needs is pragmatism. and when she is not coconuts over Cyke death she is very pragmatic

[Havok83]

If you want to replace Xavier with a more ethical person, Emma is not the character to use.

I'd actually really like to see Warren step up as a big public figure and fill the rich backer of the X-titles.

Id like Warren to be used in a capacity beyond them using him for his money

[CamilleMoineau]

The anti-woke backlash to X-Men 97 is disappointing but not at all surprising. The franchise has an undeniably progressive premise but the execution of that premise over the decades has also appealed to far right audiences, or at least hasn't exactly scared them away.

For as much as fans brag that the best X-Men characters are the women, it's no secret that the franchise's most popular and marketed character is Wolverine, a white guy who can best be described as a cross between Dirty Harry, James Bond and a slasher villain and whose solo stories contain questionable writing choices regarding women and non-white people.

That's not even getting into how the team originally consisted of four guys and one girl, all of whom were white. Or how four out of the five most prominent mutant leaders (Professor X, Magneto, Cyclops, Wolverine and Storm) are white men. Or how objectified women are (though that isn't limited to X-Men).

Yes, good points, especially about Wolverine's popularity. I was writing another post and thought of how Gambit, the antithesis of conservative (socially and politically) attracts right wingers often because of his pursuit of Rogue. They're really coming out of the woodwork, judging by their misreading of his character after ep. 2. He's hurt, he's jealous, but I strongly doubt they'd commit character assassination and turn him into some incel, like I've seen theorized.

[yogaflame]

If you want to replace Xavier with a more ethical person, Emma is not the character to use.

I'd actually really like to see Warren step up as a big public figure and fill the rich backer of the X-titles.

lol, so true! I couldn't believe in the post-Morrison era, they really went out of their way to demonize Charles, while simultaneously positioning Emma and Magneto as better, more ethical people.

I do think Krakoa was rotten from inception, though, and even trying to move things around without Sinister or Xavier wouldn't work. How great would it turn out for Emma's Krakoa if ORCHIS ever released evidence proving(or even just "baseless" propaganda speculating...correctly) how Emma herself mind-controlled the UN vote that got Krakoa on the world stage to begin with? Or footage of Warren nuking a midwest town for that matter?

[Sisterhood Of Mutants]

Yes, good points, especially about Wolverine's popularity. I was writing another post and thought of how Gambit, the antithesis of conservative (socially and politically) attracts right wingers often because of his pursuit of Rogue. They're really coming out of the woodwork, judging by their misreading of his character after ep. 2. He's hurt, he's jealous, but I strongly doubt they'd commit character assassination and turn him into some incel, like I've seen theorized.

Lolllllll the incels and other misogynists latching onto Gambit + that whole discourse dominating so many posts about him and Rogue this past week has been such an unpleasant surprise. I need them to stop perceiving my boy asap. I thought they were all pearl-clutching over his crop top making him too “woke” for them, anyway? Like… shoo. Go back to obsessing over one of your usual power fantasy self inserts from this franchise lol.

[gonnagiveittoya]

I'm happy about some of the backlash to From The Ashes from certain podcasts/notable voices on places like Twitter. Those guys were very shitty about sending their audiences after people who didn't like Krakoa enough or the right way and them being pissed off makes me happy.

[JorgeJ77]

I'm happy about some of the backlash to From The Ashes from certain podcasts/notable voices on places like Twitter. Those guys were very shitty about sending their audiences after people who didn't like Krakoa enough or the right way and them being pissed off makes me happy.

What are you talking about?

[Hakka84]

Oh I agree. It was some seriously strange stuff because, well... it was also part of the "Xavier is a jerk" plot thread where chuckles was doing "ethically questionable" things.... like employing Mutants for various businesses. Including the one Stacy worked in.

Hm, no? The brothel were Stacy X worked was actually funded by... Worthington Industries. Warren was really pissed off when he discovered his money were invested in activities like that one. Might be wrong, but the team actually went to the brothel because Warren discovered he owned a share of it.

I agree on hating the obscene treatment Stacy got from the team at the time, especially at first. Later (to push for Warren/Paige I think), she was written as annoying and the treatment (while still unwarranted) made more sense.
Her confrontation with Wolverine, where she rants about Warren being an hypocrite and where she stands by/owns up her choice to be a prostitute, is a brilliant scene IMHO. I'm usually no fan of Wolverine, but he was very good in that scene. I'm glad she was used in a better way in Krakoa.

I'd actually really like to see Warren step up as a big public figure and fill the rich backer of the X-titles.

Backer he's been in Utopia, before he left and Emma stepped him. Also, technically, he funded Wolverine's school.
On one side I'd agree. I wished they gave Warren the role that now bounces between Xavier and Emma (the "CEO of the X-Men"). Warren has a financial preparation but should also be somehow ruthless too (as CEO needs to be), with Scott the President (or the contrary, I don't remember how CEO/President roles works in companies). One curating the financial (and image) side, the other handling the day-to-day things, planning and everything to make the "X-Men company" works. Still believe that Warren was used as his best when he talked to the European Union authorities/EU President after the Banshee's X-Corp debacle. (a similar use of Warren was seen in Utopia, where he was the one to establish good relations with San Francisco major, though later Scott stepped in as the one coordinating with the Major - made sense anyway)
Still...

Id like Warren to be used in a capacity beyond them using him for his money

there's the risk that Warren, unless he's the Archangel, becomes just the glorified bancomat. I don't trust authors nor X-Office to promote Warren to the CEO seat of the X-Men without Warren becoming background cameo who's just there to sign checks.
I know Scott (and others) love Warren for what he is, but at times in-story (post-Dark Angel Sage/Wolverine & the X-Men!!!!) Warren comes out as the guy X-Men keep around just for his money but never care for him when HE needs help. Which, hm, no thanks.