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  1. #2146
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Hope is cool, Just because she has red hair doesn't mean she is a Jean copy. Just like Rachel and even Maddie they aren't identical to Jean.
    they have very different personalities
    My opinions are my own

  2. #2147
    Mighty Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    Hope is cool, Just because she has red hair doesn't mean she is a Jean copy.
    Oh, it absolutely does and the only character who has ever managed to buck that (Rachel) still rarely is featured at the same time as Jean. Hope was a walking, talking platespinner for the franchise as it walked in place for the better part of 15 years while keeping Jean off the table. Which I didn't mind, personally, but I'd just as soon have seen other people featured because as far as Hope goes there's nothing there but the hint of 'Jean?'

    I love Maddy but Maddy is literally a copy of Jean and has no personality or story without Scott and Jean and what they did to her. Can anyone name a unique personality trait of Hope's that is not derivative of the other 50 students of Cable?

  3. #2148
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Hope wasn't keeping Jean dead. Quesada didn't want her back.
    Hope existing or not wouldn't change Jean coming back at all.
    My opinions are my own

  4. #2149
    Mighty Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    Hope wasn't keeping Jean dead. Quesada didn't want her back.
    I know that. That doesn't mean Hope was remotely interesting. Her whole character is a long story tease that goes nowhere because they're just going to bring back the real thing someday, and they did.

  5. #2150
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    X Men Red and Taylor's idea for the Mutant Nation were more interesting than anything Hickman has given us so far as far as a shift in status quo goes.

    "I'll always love you, Jean Grey." "I'll always love you too, Scott Summers." - Scott Summers and Jean Grey

  6. #2151
    Mighty Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    X Men Red and Taylor's idea for the Mutant Nation were more interesting than anything Hickman has given us so far as far as a shift in status quo goes.
    I enjoyed the book in small doses but no, I don't find Atlantis and what not terribly revolutionary. To me the book was just a uniquely decent writing job for Jean with a little more idle doodling around the edges of the hint of anything new. Nothing close to Hickman.

  7. #2152
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    X Men Red and Taylor's idea for the Mutant Nation were more interesting than anything Hickman has given us so far as far as a shift in status quo goes.
    I prefer Hickman's more aggressive take than Taylor's shilly-shally.

    At least he has a place set up and isn't asking T'Challa and Stark for help.
    "Cable was right!"

  8. #2153
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    I know we had Searebro and everything but did we even find out what Taylor’s mutant nation was? The only times they even touched on Jean’s “idea” for a mutant nation, it was represented by a bunch of floating mutant heads or just her saying it’s good please trust her it’s good she promises.

  9. #2154
    Mighty Member ohsnapulon5000's Avatar
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    Honestly Clan Rasputin deserves its eldest child. If Clan Braddock can have Jaime, and Clan Summers can have Gabriel, Clan Rasputin can have its jewel- Mikhail.

  10. #2155
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    But that isn't what I was referring to: I specifically mentioned the Mutant Nation that Jean was trying to set up and that would have come out of the end of the series. It's... simpler but similar to what's going on with Krakoa at al., but without the unnecessary runaround and yet another war with humankind. I don't see why we couldn't have achieved Dawn of X spinning out of that.

    "I'll always love you, Jean Grey." "I'll always love you too, Scott Summers." - Scott Summers and Jean Grey

  11. #2156
    Mighty Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    I prefer Hickman's more aggressive take than Taylor's shilly-shally.
    I think the writing for Jean - and I haven't finished Red, to be clear - is the best and freshest take on her I've seen since Morrison or before that, Claremont. But I do think the book was at best yet another example of extreme editorial constraint on talented writers. At best it gets the Mike Carey Memorial Reward. As a fan I couldn't get re-invested in Relaunch With No Systemic Changes #12, Now With Color Coding, and there's a reason for that. But even in those circumstances the franchise has still had some talented writers and decent books amidst the morass.

  12. #2157
    Mighty Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    But that isn't what I was referring to: I specifically mentioned the Mutant Nation that Jean was trying to set up and that would have come out of the end of the series. It's... simpler but similar to what's going on with Krakoa at al., but without the unnecessary runaround and yet another war with humankind. I don't see why we couldn't have achieved Dawn of X spinning out of that.
    But ultimately, what about what Jean was doing was any different from Utopia? Here the mutants are aggressors in terms of not only ideology but infrastructure, and the story of HoX/PoX is a deconstruction of all the tired X-Men meta-narratives (time travel, dystopia, etc) of the last several decades.

  13. #2158
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohsnapulon5000 View Post
    Honestly Clan Rasputin deserves its eldest child. If Clan Braddock can have Jaime, and Clan Summers can have Gabriel, Clan Rasputin can have its jewel- Mikhail.

  14. #2159
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    But ultimately, what about what Jean was doing was any different from Utopia? Here the mutants are aggressors in terms of not only ideology but infrastructure, and the story of HoX/PoX is a deconstruction of all the tired X-Men meta-narratives (time travel, dystopia, etc) of the last several decades.
    What about THAT is any different than Utopia though? Nothing, it's basically the same concept. Mutants rounded up in one place brought together by some strong, white man that is seen for some reason to be the savior of whatever. With the Mutant Nation it was promised to be more of a catchall fix so to speak, no mutants in one large conglomeration, while still basically promising to be more like what Dawn of X is appearing to do. HoxPox is super well written and I've been loving it but the only new ground has been Moira.

    "I'll always love you, Jean Grey." "I'll always love you too, Scott Summers." - Scott Summers and Jean Grey

  15. #2160
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    But that isn't what I was referring to: I specifically mentioned the Mutant Nation that Jean was trying to set up and that would have come out of the end of the series. It's... simpler but similar to what's going on with Krakoa at al., but without the unnecessary runaround and yet another war with humankind. I don't see why we couldn't have achieved Dawn of X spinning out of that.
    But as Tycon metioned Taylor really doesn't really go into what Jean's nation would be like besides a place where mutants stay away from humans. We also don't get to see how she would've dealt with human enemies. Taylor did squat in 11 issues. Hickman got shit done in 1.
    "Cable was right!"

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