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  1. #8986
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doom'nGloom View Post
    I agree with all of this. One of my favorite characters over at DC, Jason Todd, is defined by his death at the hands of Joker. Yes he came back eventually but his character, his relationship with batfamily and his outlook on life going forward are all a byproduct of the trauma of his death. Him coming back didn't cheapen his death, it added more to it than it took away. So I think the idea that death was already meaningless in comics misses the point. It's like saying this Krakoa era is meaningless since it won't last forever which is wrong since it affected the characters we love whether it's permanent or not. As for Magneto I too want his death to stick a little so we can explore how it affected the characters that he was close to. There is definitely juicy storytelling potential there.
    Exactly things always change/stay the same in comics but what´s compelling is the way stories are told around these characters and concepts like death, legacy, family bonds. Jason story impacted me the first time I read it and didn´t expect him to ever come back or for it to work but it did, same happens with Krakoa and Magneto.

    I am personally looking forward towards how Ewing handles his death scene on X-men Red and what he will do with it in the next few issues, he promised he was going to give a hard time to Magneto and he´s delivering, it´s not a bad thing when the writer has in mind compelling stories to tell with them and this is definitely one of them.

    For example, given Judgment Day started with humanity being furious over mutants inmortality, Magneto´s case, a mutant who died rejecting his opportunity to live, it may bring the question, Is possible that there are bigger, more important matters than inmortality?

    Quote Originally Posted by gonnagiveittoya View Post
    Magneto taking Arakko to heart if it weren't that he's absolutely going to come back and they have even already said how it will happen, through the way Wanda made.
    Yes it could happen like this but Wanda´s way has a limit, the person needs to WANT to come back, Magneto at the moment, probably will wish to stay with Anya and his dead family and keep his oath to Arakko in the process than come back for his own sake, he will have to be given a bigger compelling reason than just himself to get back to life and that´s where the story can be told.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 09-18-2022 at 05:26 PM.
    "To the X-men then, who don´t die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

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  2. #8987
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    For example, given Judgment Day started with humanity being furious over mutants inmortality, Magneto´s case, a mutant who died rejecting his opportunity to live, it may bring the question, Is possible that there are bigger, more important matters than immortality?
    It really felt like he was building a 'winter palace' to live out his sunset years, and in a way, it feels like Magneto found that he had a choice of living forever in increasing obsolescence / irrelevance, or dying well.

  3. #8988
    Astonishing Member Uncanny X-Man's Avatar
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    I don't know if this counts as controversial or unpopular but I wish more writers adopted the "one character spotlight per issue" approach Kieron Gillen has taken on Immortal. I'm posting it here because frankly I view it very much as a negative, or rather a response to a negative trend which is most writers' inability to write a team book these days.

    There are some exceptions far and in between that I can think of (Al Ewing, Geoff Johns) but for the most parts writers only seem to focus on a couple of characters at best while leaving the rest of the team as wallpaper. Gerry Duggan is guilty of this over on adjectiveless and it's really been the case for several past X-writers as well. I think adopting Gillen's approach would help them focus and force them to spotlight every character on their roster while also moving along the overall plot.

  4. #8989
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncanny X-Man View Post
    I don't know if this counts as controversial or unpopular but I wish more writers adopted the "one character spotlight per issue" approach Kieron Gillen has taken on Immortal. I'm posting it here because frankly I view it very much as a negative, or rather a response to a negative trend which is most writers' inability to write a team book these days.

    There are some exceptions far and in between that I can think of (Al Ewing, Geoff Johns) but for the most parts writers only seem to focus on a couple of characters at best while leaving the rest of the team as wallpaper. Gerry Duggan is guilty of this over on adjectiveless and it's really been the case for several past X-writers as well. I think adopting Gillen's approach would help them focus and force them to spotlight every character on their roster while also moving along the overall plot.
    Duggan's first year of his run did the Spotlight issue approach. He has continued to do it with this new team with Iceman getting that treatment in the last issue

  5. #8990
    Astonishing Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saithor View Post
    They would if the characters had any approaches to how the resurrection protocols work and the possible moral and philosophical Grey areas it raised. Despite his common perception as some kind of gross out shock jock writer on here the only early writer really examining the implications was Percy, and those elements were quickly dropped, probably because editorial told him to knock it off and not have Domino go through an existential crisis.
    Did he actually say that editorial made him pivot lol?

  6. #8991
    Astonishing Member Uncanny X-Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Duggan's first year of his run did the Spotlight issue approach. He has continued to do it with this new team with Iceman getting that treatment in the last issue
    Duggan definitely SAID he would do that but I don't really think he pulled it off in practice. I don't feel like Lorna or Shiro got any sort of spotlight aside from a handful of pages. I guess it's also a matter of quality rather than quantity (as in, page time), to me those characters weren't really given any sort of meaningful exploration in those issues that were supposedly focused on them. Laura's issue too was very much run of the mill.

  7. #8992
    Astonishing Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncanny X-Man View Post
    Duggan definitely SAID he would do that but I don't really think he pulled it off in practice. I don't feel like Lorna or Shiro got any sort of spotlight aside from a handful of pages. I guess it's also a matter of quality rather than quantity (as in, page time), to me those characters weren't really given any sort of meaningful exploration in those issues that were supposedly focused on them. Laura's issue too was very much run of the mill.
    He DEFINITELY did not pull it off in practice. You can tell he wasn’t about it as the election speeches got shorter and shorter.

  8. #8993

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    I already mentioned an example of story that benefitted from removing the stakes of permanent death. And if you think: a) Death is permanent in comics and b) There's a real chance they'll kill, say, Spider-Man or Batman, you're reading the wrong comics. And does that mean you only read stories or watch movies when the characters are in mortal peril? The stakes are that mutants have a paradise where they are not oppressed for the first time- and they can lose it, which would be worse than they never had it. Characters can fall out with each other, be exiled, or have any sort of complications.



    This is a stupid comparison.
    I can’t really buy that they would lose it cause it’s shown they can terraform a planet so they can probably make a whole other island. I don’t believe they’ll stay dead, but like others say I like the complex feeling of characters not knowing that they’ll come back and the feelings that come with it. Falling out with someone is not as bad in my opinion as others make it out to be and the other complications aren’t really complicated if characters stepped back and analyze the situation like they have shown to be. Yes I do like to watch and read stories that have characters in mortal peril that’s what makes them thrilling.
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  9. #8994
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    Did he actually say that editorial made him pivot lol?
    No, it’s my conjecture given how heavily the other books went out of their way to avoid those elements and the fact that unlike most plots, which Percy just tends to let shimmer overlong, those ones got dropped like a stone.

  10. #8995
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    The thing with character deaths and resurrections is that they became so common in both Marvel and DC that the characters from both companies have been commenting on it themselves for the last 20 years. When both death and resurrection are so commonplace that the entire superhero community is aware that they both keep happening, both concepts lose any meaning and there is no tension. Batman is aware he can be brought back if he is killed, Spider-Man is aware, Superman is aware, Iron Man is aware. It's like the Dragonballs exist in the MU and DCU and everyone knows about them.

    It's hard for franchises to keep characters dead even outside of comics. Star Trek couldn't keep Spock dead for even 1 movie, Arthur Conan Doyle was forced to resurrect Sherlock Holmes after killing him off in order to be done writing him all the way back in 1893. That's part of why deaths should be rare to begin with, but the easy out has allowed the publishers to abuse both concepts and the characters, stories, and world suffer for it. The resurrection protocols are an inferior answer to just not killing characters and especially not resurrecting them, but at least we're no longer pretending when everyone, writers, readers, and characters have all been in on the joke for decades.

  11. #8996
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncanny X-Man View Post
    Duggan definitely SAID he would do that but I don't really think he pulled it off in practice. I don't feel like Lorna or Shiro got any sort of spotlight aside from a handful of pages. I guess it's also a matter of quality rather than quantity (as in, page time), to me those characters weren't really given any sort of meaningful exploration in those issues that were supposedly focused on them. Laura's issue too was very much run of the mill.
    He did do that. Now you can say his execution wasnt good and I might agree but his style most definitely was the spotlight approach that is happening in Immortal. Gillen is just a better writer

  12. #8997

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    Like i'm going to need marvel to realize despite anything else from this era hickman whether on purpose or by mistake has set mutants up as their star trek next frontier. I mean if egos are thrown aside or whatever there is against mutants one has to realize the potential of gates and travel through them and this new galatic importance of sol leaves them open to an ever expanding universe they can build on. I saw a thread about what makes marvel and dc different and i would say in a sense this is one of them. This is like such an organic way to expand and contract and expand and create new upon a universe as i have ever seen. It honestly does confuse me sometimes the close minded in my view thoughts on this era and i'm not talking about politics but simply growth and potential.

    And as much as people tout death you can only really sell death believable once but you can repackage, rebrand, and resell life in an abundance of ways.
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  13. #8998
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Exactly things always change/stay the same in comics but what´s compelling is the way stories are told around these characters and concepts like death, legacy, family bonds. Jason story impacted me the first time I read it and didn´t expect him to ever come back or for it to work but it did, same happens with Krakoa and Magneto.

    I am personally looking forward towards how Ewing handles his death scene on X-men Red and what he will do with it in the next few issues, he promised he was going to give a hard time to Magneto and he´s delivering, it´s not a bad thing when the writer has in mind compelling stories to tell with them and this is definitely one of them.

    For example, given Judgment Day started with humanity being furious over mutants inmortality, Magneto´s case, a mutant who died rejecting his opportunity to live, it may bring the question, Is possible that there are bigger, more important matters than inmortality?



    Yes it could happen like this but Wanda´s way has a limit, the person needs to WANT to come back, Magneto at the moment, probably will wish to stay with Anya and his dead family and keep his oath to Arakko in the process than come back for his own sake, he will have to be given a bigger compelling reason than just himself to get back to life and that´s where the story can be told.
    I really don't see Krakoa building up the characters in constructive way. the entire premise seems to undermine any emotional investment in the story at all. I hope magneto stays dead for a few months but I don't think he will. I feel they need to at least limit how much a crux the cloning has been in the stories after cap was brought back before they break the entire comic line. but mostly I at least want the illusion of stakes.

    also Jason Todd coming back was one of the dumbest things ever and zero interesting stories came out of it.

  14. #8999
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    Quote Originally Posted by Covetous_One View Post
    Then what is a real stake? Cause if death is off the table then what is there to permanently lose?
    a good writer would have the characters change sides and cause internal division. if the characters can't die then the only conflict is who should be in charge. so we should be seeing the men fracture into smaller nations and civil wars. wars with no end because death has no meaning and nobody has any reason to compromise. other characters have the powers of the 5 and other people can make a cerebro. there should be another mutant nation with its own beliefs and ideals.

    the idea of the eternals fighting the mutants touched on this until they changed direction to make about being mad at god.

  15. #9000

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    All I know is this era has had me spending coins up until judgement and I had more of the tpbs but I gave away four one to each neice and nephew so when they come together they have 4 volumes to share. Inspired by getting red 6 in the mail.

    PXL_20220923_183853091.jpg

    And that's not counting the many digital purchases.
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