Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[frostedemma]

I agree with the last bit, but any real reference to her religion prior to her ressurection to speak on any of those issues should have really been done. Or even after as she gets the second set of (rather awful) knuckle tattoos. I will agree with you that this is poor writing—but poor writing can (and imo does) lead to character assassination here for kitty, because of all these issues.



She can, she just never has before in any other book. Ever. In her fourty+ years of history. And she's been over 14 for the vast majority of that time. At what point do you agree it is just out of character? Or do you believe anything written and thusly canon is impirically in character?




Seems a little rude but whatever, see above for why it is completely out of character. (Not the woman specifically part, but that she is doing that at all—it was cringy the first time too)




But some of those people have had their histories brought up.
Excalibur 1 addressed in general Betsy's aversion to ever speaking to Kwannon and fallen angels heavily went into kwannon's identity relating to betsy and her prior life with the hand. I hope you are right, but I am not so sure it will be for those that aren't, given how it seems to be up to the writers to do so, and they.. aren't, largely. Fallen angels did many things wrong but at least it addressed that.



I've given him time enough imo to fix the flaws of his writing. Character assassination is a form of bad writing, most would agree. I happen to think both are taking place, because he is completely changing her character without lead up or proper explanation. Never before have Emma and Kitty been anything close to best friends (much less close friends) since before this book, and that is as much because of their history and Emma's original intent to kidnap her as it was their personalities. Until now.

People have talked about Emma's history as a villain and while I personally have no problems with her being on the council, I do have an issue with people saying she has grown or evolved past her history. Ressurecting Shaw and beginning the hellfire club and bringing back that aspect of her past directly shows how she hasnt evolved past it, seeing as how Shaw has now killed Kitty and her little games have harmed others—none of that points to her growing or evolving. It actually looks a lot like Emma up to things she should be past but isn't for whatever reason. And the fact that Kitty of all people isn't calling her out on it is mind boggling. Especially if you want to say that Emma and Kitty are friends–"you want to work with and elevate your abuser to a council position? The guy who had you convinced kidnapping me was the right thing to do?" Is an obvious conversation that never happened. And won't.



I implied nothing of the sort, but since you are taking away such assumptions, let me be clear: there is nothing inherently wrong with that sort of behavior (though some on this very forum decried piotr kissing kitty at random in Age of X-man when they didn't have their full memories of one another and were gleefully happy about kitty kissing a random woman in marauders) as long as there are no issues with consent (which hasn't been implied thus far). The issue is that it isnt something *Kitty* (or Kate, though Kitty has been headmistress without a need for a name change and been to the white house as Kitty, so the name change itself is just another nonsense choice by Duggan to differentiate his version from others and make his mark.. poorly, on the character) would ever do. Because she has never done it.

And of all the characters to be taking part in the revelry, kitty is one of the ones it makes the least sense to do any such thing because of, seeing as how she is on a ship away from party island and both kissing incidents were with non mutants, away from the island. The party atmosphere doesn't exactly travel worldwide.

There definitely are people who have expressed a shipping interest in the two, but hey, one thing to agree on if you also feel that is a crazy ship.

Just maybe try less to insult whatever morals you assume I have because we disagree about characterization in the future, because it's completely unnecessary.

I'm sorry if my reply came out rude I wasn't out to insult you, but I guess tone is hard to read.

As loke13 said, it seems like you have a rather rigid view of Kitty's characterisation, which funnily enough reminds me of Kitty reaction to Ororo getting a mohawk and changing her style. Characters grow, evolve and change the same as we do, and it's nearly impossibly to not have any substantial change in over 40 years, and if they don't we complain that they haven't had any growth of development. Not everything is as it seems on Krakoa, and theres's definitely people acting strange on the Island but I believe it's deliberate, for the idea of Krakoa to work a lot of things and personal grievances have to be swept under the rug. But also it's a new dawn for mutantkind, so it's understandable that Kitty is pulling a "new year, new me". I still firmly believe that "Kate" is unnecessary but I digress.


I have to disagree with you about Emma. She hasn't touched the Hellfire Club since the original Hellions died so I don't think it's fair to say that she hasn't grown or evolved past her history. She has however always kept operating Frost industries which makes sense because you need funds if you're going to keep a school afloat. Emma wasn't involved when the Hellfire Club shifted and started working with the X-men in Bunn's Uncanny run. It's understandable that Emma decided to rejoin the club given how it now works with the interest of the X-men and it is one of her area of expertise. As far as Shaw goes, blaming Emma for what he did to Kitty isn't completely fair, he was supposed to be on his best behaviour and that was the deal with all the villains, so him breaking that and being the slimy bastard that he is isn't exactly Emma's fault that he's greedy *******.

[Hizashi]

It's an unpopular but true criticism that characterization and existing canon don't matter in this era. Like at all.

That's a knock against the current era in my opinion then.

[Hizashi]

It's not a strawmen when you gave no explanations as to why you're so vehemently opposed to the poly/open relationships and a lot of the vocal criticisms about on the internet has been based in sexism/slutshaming and or alpha male nonsense. Things don't exist in a vacuum so I don't think completely leftside to come to this reasoning but I'm sorry if you got offended my goal was not to thrown stones.

Again what's wrong with a little silly nonsense, especially when its in the background? Does Logan always have to be the brooding, cigar in his mouth lone wolf and Scott always be riddle with self-guilt and not allowing himself to have fun and enjoy himself?

Wanting representation in relationships doesn't mean that every relationship depicted on panel has to be taken with the upmost seriousness with no silly and (inoffensively) mindless pairing. This is definitely a situation where we can have our cake and eat it too.

It's not about being offended, but those are serious motivations to assume about others. I thought that I had adequately explained myself, clearly I needed to put in more work.

I absolutely think it would be great if Logan and Scott could get out of their molds (and this is obviously true of all characters) but I don't think that means this.

As far as serious vs silly - I (clearly) love Scott's character, and like the others involved, and I just require more before this makes sense in-universe to me, for all of the characters. I'm more than willing to admit that what I'd require is likely unreasonable, but that's just how I feel.

I am going to step around a lot of the minefield here, but this grouping is only "shocking" or "giggles" because of the characters selected and the established attitudes. To pretend otherwise is being disingenuous. At best you just don't care that characters people do feel represented by are being badly written.

Thank you. That's all that this is.

[Billy Maximoff]

Polaris has always been much more than Magneto-lite.

[Wiccan]

I'm literally gay, and the punchline isn't that "haha scott and logan being gay" but rather them all dating each other. A lot of people have picked up some homoeroticism between Scott and Logan over the years and are having fun with this poly/open relationship.

I knew you were gay. Or, rather, I assumed lol. Gay people can be guilty of things like that too, and often are. I say guilty but in fact it's not that serious. Since this is the thread for unpopular opinions anyway I just felt like saying how this attitude feels tiring and annoying, and I'd say there's definetely a weird sort of feeling about the idea of Logan/Scott "being gay" with each other that even LGBT people feel similar to straight ones lol.

[Anchorsify]

It's an unpopular but true criticism that characterization and existing canon don't matter in this era. Like at all.

Pretty much, and its honestly making me lose interest in this new era altogether. If the intent was to reboot characters, then a clear and legitimate AU would have been the way to go—and hickman could have easily set that up in HOX/POX, but he didnt. So it is really annoying to see such a creative retcon of Moira end up with the same quality of writing prior to hickman. Perhaps it's too much to expect a sudden leap upward, but OTOH i don't see any book as doing markedly better than other recent titles. At this point I'm only interested in the metaplot which isn't really progressing much at all so far.

I'm sorry if my reply came out rude I wasn't out to insult you, but I guess tone is hard to read.

As loke13 said, it seems like you have a rather rigid view of Kitty's characterisation, which funnily enough reminds me of Kitty reaction to Ororo getting a mohawk and changing her style. Characters grow, evolve and change the same as we do, and it's nearly impossibly to not have any substantial change in over 40 years, and if they don't we complain that they haven't had any growth of development. Not everything is as it seems on Krakoa, and theres's definitely people acting strange on the Island but I believe it's deliberate, for the idea of Krakoa to work a lot of things and personal grievances have to be swept under the rug. But also it's a new dawn for mutantkind, so it's understandable that Kitty is pulling a "new year, new me". I still firmly believe that "Kate" is unnecessary but I digress.


I have to disagree with you about Emma. She hasn't touched the Hellfire Club since the original Hellions died so I don't think it's fair to say that she hasn't grown or evolved past her history. She has however always kept operating Frost industries which makes sense because you need funds if you're going to keep a school afloat. Emma wasn't involved when the Hellfire Club shifted and started working with the X-men in Bunn's Uncanny run. It's understandable that Emma decided to rejoin the club given how it now works with the interest of the X-men and it is one of her area of expertise. As far as Shaw goes, blaming Emma for what he did to Kitty isn't completely fair, he was supposed to be on his best behaviour and that was the deal with all the villains, so him breaking that and being the slimy bastard that he is isn't exactly Emma's fault that he's greedy *******.

If my rview is the past thirty years of her portrayal don't align with her current one then I fail to see how it could be labeled "rigid" but I suspect this is something that could be back and forthed all day. If a character is to change, evolve, or grow, it should be done in a way that makes sense and is actually a matter of gradual change. No one wakes up and gets a call from someone they have had a complicated relationship with and goes "is it the day we become best friends?" It's a process. Changing a hairstyle is nothing like it.

I'm not blaming Emma for shaw's actions, I blame her for speeding up his ressurection and then choosing him to work alongside her on both the council and with hellfire business. If even one of those were different kitty would not have died because shaw would not be in the same position to act against her. There is no growth in Emma going back to hellfirr and restarting the same old fued and song and dance of backstabbing and manipulation with Shaw as has happened before—that is very clearly her regressing, not progressing, while simultaneously trying to be shown moving on with Kitty. It is a hard contradiction for me to believe makes any sort of sense if you take into account what kitty and Emma know of both each other and Shaw. If anything it is a prime opportunity for kitty to intervene (in a much more logical way of befriending her) to tell her directly, you fucking with shaw and doing this hellfire business is exactly what you stepped away from to join the X-men and be better than, and if you go down this road you are only going to hurt yourself and others you care about. .. but instead kitty got kill shaw knuckle tats so whatever, comics disappoint me sometimes.

[Kingdom X]

Pretty much, and its honestly making me lose interest in this new era altogether. If the intent was to reboot characters, then a clear and legitimate AU would have been the way to go—and hickman could have easily set that up in HOX/POX, but he didnt. So it is really annoying to see such a creative retcon of Moira end up with the same quality of writing prior to hickman. Perhaps it's too much to expect a sudden leap upward, but OTOH i don't see any book as doing markedly better than other recent titles. At this point I'm only interested in the metaplot which isn't really progressing much at all so far.



If my rview is the past thirty years of her portrayal don't align with her current one then I fail to see how it could be labeled "rigid" but I suspect this is something that could be back and forthed all day. If a character is to change, evolve, or grow, it should be done in a way that makes sense and is actually a matter of gradual change. No one wakes up and gets a call from someone they have had a complicated relationship with and goes "is it the day we become best friends?" It's a process. Changing a hairstyle is nothing like it.

I'm not blaming Emma for shaw's actions, I blame her for speeding up his ressurection and then choosing him to work alongside her on both the council and with hellfire business. If even one of those were different kitty would not have died because shaw would not be in the same position to act against her. There is no growth in Emma going back to hellfirr and restarting the same old fued and song and dance of backstabbing and manipulation with Shaw as has happened before—that is very clearly her regressing, not progressing, while simultaneously trying to be shown moving on with Kitty. It is a hard contradiction for me to believe makes any sort of sense if you take into account what kitty and Emma know of both each other and Shaw. If anything it is a prime opportunity for kitty to intervene (in a much more logical way of befriending her) to tell her directly, you fucking with shaw and doing this hellfire business is exactly what you stepped away from to join the X-men and be better than, and if you go down this road you are only going to hurt yourself and others you care about. .. but instead kitty got kill shaw knuckle tats so whatever, comics disappoint me sometimes.

Wasn't Emma really resistant to working with Shaw again when Xavier and Magneto brought it up in HOX/POX?

[Anchorsify]

Wasn't Emma really resistant to working with Shaw again when Xavier and Magneto brought it up in HOX/POX?

PoX 5 they ask Emma to head the legitimate side and Shaw to run the illegitimate: Attachment 101161

Not much of a complaint beyond 'I just got him out of the way'. She didn't really put up a fight to getting involved with him all over again, but I was wrong about her being part of his resurrection and picking him, that's my bad. I suppose it's the villain protocol + plausible deniability are C and E's reasons, though frankly having someone who can spill the quiet council's secrets if caught for running the black market operations seems dumb in its own right (which is charles and magneto looking dumb, for the record). But same thing still applies: Going back to hellfire and fueding with shaw all over again is antithetical to growth, and she very willingly went back to do the same stuff she'd just finished. Which makes befriending kitty and becoming BFF's with her even more odd, both that Kitty would go along with it and Emma would even extend that friendship. It's basically referencing Whedon's Astonishing where Emma wanted Kitty on the team to keep her in check, except without any real acknowledgment of their differences as individuals and as people who have been in conflict, in exchange for creating a BFF galpal duo without any real reasoning as to why it's happening.. which is a shame, since they've had an interesting dynamic.

[jwatson]

I love captions and miss then. I love love love them. I love melding into the art while the writer expounds and gets into the character's heads. For me it offers a deeper experience.

[gonnagiveittoya]

Also I don't like the font all the Dawn of X titles now have. Yes I get it's to convey a sense of unity amongst the books but it just looks kinda ugly to me.

[Sandmans_Raven]

Idk if I think it's ugly, but I definitely find it kind of boring

[Zelena]

I love captions and miss then. I love love love them. I love melding into the art while the writer expounds and gets into the character's heads. For me it offers a deeper experience.

I love reading a comic and not just looking at it. And I love being with at least a character and sharing his emotions and thoughts and not being just an outsider. But this character must be a decent person.

For me, a comic author is a storyteller.

But then I grew up with Claremont…

[OopsIdiditagain]

Xavier is definitely planting subliminals in people...

[Hizashi]

I love reading a comic and not just looking at it. And I love being with at least a character and sharing his emotions and thoughts and not being just an outsider. But this character must be a decent person.

For me, a comic author is a storyteller.

But then I grew up with Claremont…

This is true, and writer's shouldn't rely on artists to carry a book.

[Hizashi]

The prolonged, casual use and abuse of telepathy needs to be addressed; while it makes a little more sense for certain characters to abuse their power, this isn't even simply about "good guys" doing the same. There should be more than just a slap on the wrist or outright ignoring of even casual abuses, and I don't know why there isn't an anti-telepath faction.