Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[Bunch of Coconuts]

Just to point out the incredibly obvious reason?

Because those examples of terrorist/slaver/cannibal/mutant who refuses to recycle/whatever have to agree to the nation's laws along with being a citizen.

I guess since there wasn’t a specific law to not kill Ms. Pryde…

[numberthirty]

You do realize these characters have histories before they joined Krakoa? Histories they admitted not having any regrets for even after jointing Krakoa? Histories that included trying to kill 90% of the worlds population, triggering the Bronze Age collapse, being the supreme leader of Hydra, killed gods, killing civilians for kicks. And that my comment was in the case of essentially ruining Krakoa’s reputation in the world? Or at least should if anyone took these books seriously.

And what does Gorgon offer that Wolverine or any of the other Mutants whose thing has included “Be a ninja” offers? At the bare minimum they wouldn’t have the fact that most of the Marvel universe’s gods would want them dead on sight.

The history where he sacrificed his own children so that humanity would actually have a planet to exist on?

Yes. I am aware of it.

As for Gorgon?

Does Krakoa seem like it is afraid of the Marvel universe's gods?

[Saithor]

Oh, you mean the history they retconned in to try and change Apocalypse around? Where before he didn’t have any of that? And that despite saving humanity he still latter tried to kill 90% or at least a majority of it? Multiple times? Are we all operating under the rules that if you save the planet one it gives you a free ticket to commit genocide? Yo, someone get Red Skull on the phone.

As for the god stuff, yes, why not, let’s have the mutants make even more enemies why not. Hercules and goddamn Thor are in agreement with Ares that what Gorgon did to Phobos was fucked up and they’d help him get revenge. Probably wouldn’t have any issue with Krakoa outside of that. Or the various Asian groups that hate him for trying to kill several cities…the groups he helped kill for the Hand, Hydra, etc.

[numberthirty]

As for this "Looking At The Books Seriously..." business -

Anything that was actually like that would have to account for the reality that Krakoa's reputation being ruined when an assassination attempt on three of it's Council members resulted in a Krakoan Captain not executing those assassins when it would be completely justifiable seems rather laughable.

And, that's being charitable.

[numberthirty]

Oh, you mean the history they retconned in to try and change Apocalypse around? Where before he didn’t have any of that? And that despite saving humanity he still latter tried to kill 90% or at least a majority of it? Multiple times? Are we all operating under the rules that if you save the planet one it gives you a free ticket to commit genocide? Yo, someone get Red Skull on the phone.

As for the god stuff, yes, why not, let’s have the mutants make even more enemies why not. Hercules and goddamn Thor are in agreement with Ares that what Gorgon did to Phobos was fucked up and they’d help him get revenge. Probably wouldn’t have any issue with Krakoa outside of that. Or the various Asian groups that hate him for trying to kill several cities…the groups he helped kill for the Hand, Hydra, etc.

The Apocalypse who just willingly stepped down from the Council and left Earth to protect it, right?

That's the Apocalypse that we are discussing?

[Saithor]

I give up. The X-men community’s obsession with justifying Krakoa parading around someone who was unrepentant about trying to destroy the majority of intelligent life on earth multiple times can join the Chuck Austen run in weird, unexplainable crap. By sheer body count alone, Apocalypse would have been worse than Hitler. Unless you think having Hitler as a diplomat is a good thing, then no, having Alocalypse there or even in the public eye is stupid.

[Saithor]

The Apocalypse who just willingly stepped down from the Council and left Earth to protect it, right?

That's the Apocalypse that we are discussing?

You do realize that there is an Alocalypse that exists before Krakoa, and that people like actions to be held accountable for, and oh why am I even bothering. Okay, screw if, if we are doing this, we go full hog. Marvel should go ahead, pull the trigger, and make the Red Skull a good guy. Retcon in a tragic backstory, have him start doing heroic things. Have that play out.

[numberthirty]

...

As for the god stuff, yes, why not, let’s have the mutants make even more enemies why not. Hercules and goddamn Thor are in agreement with Ares that what Gorgon did to Phobos was fucked up and they’d help him get revenge. Probably wouldn’t have any issue with Krakoa outside of that. Or the various Asian groups that hate him for trying to kill several cities…the groups he helped kill for the Hand, Hydra, etc.

I think that you might not have the whole story on exactly how Ares saw that.

See Secret Warriors.

[numberthirty]

You do realize that there is an Alocalypse that exists before Krakoa, and that people like actions to be held accountable for, and oh why am I even bothering. Okay, screw if, if we are doing this, we go full hog. Marvel should go ahead, pull the trigger, and make the Red Skull a good guy. Retcon in a tragic backstory, have him start doing heroic things. Have that play out.

Exactly how should he be held to account for relinquishing a position of power so that he could protect Earth?

[Saithor]

I think that you might not have the whole story on exactly how Ares saw that.

See Secret Warriors.

Ares was proud of Phobos’ actions. If you’re saying he was okay with Gorgon killing his son, bullshit. And Hercules definitely wasn’t given Secret Empire.

[Saithor]

Exactly how should he be held to account for relinquishing a position of power so that he could protect Earth?

Okay, we’re done. I’ve frequently stated I’ve been talking about his earlier actions, and all you do is go on and on about what he has done in Krakoa like a broken record as if that’s the only thing the character did that matters. Apocalypse has never really shown regret for a lot of what he has done, got himself into his current situation by manipulating people behind the scenes, and gets treated like a hero despite repeatedly attempting genocide with no regrets. But sure, he did something kinda nice. Once. I’m sure Hitler pet a puppy a few times too.

[numberthirty]

Ares was proud of Phobos’ actions. If you’re saying he was okay with Gorgon killing his son, bullshit. And Hercules definitely wasn’t given Secret Empire.

Politely, you are attempting to oversimplify a complex situation that both Ares and Phobos each knew was in the cards.

[numberthirty]

Okay, we’re done. I’ve frequently stated I’ve been talking about his earlier actions, and all you do is go on and on about what he has done in Krakoa like a broken record as if that’s the only thing the character did that matters. Apocalypse has never really shown regret for a lot of what he has done, got himself into his current situation by manipulating people behind the scenes, and gets treated like a hero despite repeatedly attempting genocide with no regrets. But sure, he did something kinda nice. Once. I’m sure Hitler pet a puppy a few times too.

Leaving the planet you were born on to ensure it's safety is not "Something Kinda Nice..."

[Baron of Faltine]

Leaving the planet you were born on to ensure it's safety is not "Something Kinda Nice..."

You two guys made me realise one (of the many) weirdness of this K-era. Not necessary a bad thing but a sore incongruity: tha this Apocalypse does not seem the same person we saw in past. Of all the "irredeemable" bad guys that joined that endless party that is krakoa society Apocalypse is the one that seem out of nowhere completely different every time we see him, as literally every appearance eof his seem a different personality.
To the point that briefly I almost thought that was Evan/genesis cosplaying as big A. But is not the case. Still. Somethings is off with Apoc characterization.

[king of hybrids]

I’m sure we’ll get more Apocalypse-did-nothing-wrong retcons in Judgement day to explain away the Eternals’ beef with him