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  1. #6781

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Krakoa citizenship doesn't exclude others, being given automatically due to mutant status. Therefore, Wolverine still is a Canadian citizen, Cyclops an American, etc. Therefore, makes no sense for them to be forbidden to go to other places. Krakoa also didn't steal anyone's land and didn't have to kill anyone to exist, unlike some places... Also, Krakoa doesn't make mandatory for any mutant to live there.
    And honestly Emma Frost and Magneto have already started debating whether Krakoa needs to relax the borders to account for human society refugees. They came to a compromise because they didn't think the entire quiet council would accept it while Krakoa is still in the process of building itself internally as a country. So the compromise is that they could extend aid to human refugees and let them live on Island M while they apply for asylum to any country they choose.

    It's complex, the other part of this that very few humans would enjoy living on Krakoa. There are no roads, no cars, people constantly using their powers to build things and to fly and to move around. Telepaths talking to everyone. Kyle knew what he was getting into because he had been around other mutants for a long time, so he didn't have trouble adapting to living on Krakoa. But other humans might find Krakoa to be a huge change for them. Plus you have to be a tad careful on the island itself, it does need psychic energy to stay powered.

    There is another issue, the resurrection protocols and the slow move to bring everyone from Genosha and the M-Day Decimation back. This is a confidential and internal Krakoan matter. Plus they honestly can't bring humans to life, Charles doesn't have mental backups of humans, and Sinister doesn't bother cataloguing baseline human dna anymore, he can't be bothered. This is why they can't really resurrect humans, they don't have viable backup date of human dna, and the mental backup of a person's identity. Thus they need to keep the resurrection protocols to themselves. Eventually humans are going to know about it and start demanding resurrections for recently dead or long dead relatives, especially if they realize Genosha citizens are suddenly coming back in large numbers.

    I could see some human demagogues attacking Krakoa to try and kidnap the Five to enslave them to keep the demagogue and his family alive as rulers for all eternity. There are a lot of modern leaders in several countries who would kill and commit genocide if they thought they could gain the secret of immortality. Even if they had to kill every mutant on Earth to obtain it.

    Personally, I feel like Emma is trying to find a way for Krakoa to interact with humans more without jeopardizing the security of the Krakoan island, or their technology. Island M is used as a shipping port that both mutant and human vessels are about to use to exchange goods. The Hellfire Corporation and Frost International ships are not all staffed by mutants, the company is too big for that, so I imagine they have several ships in their fleet that have human captains. The island that Magneto convinced Namor to give to Emma is now a base of operations and it is supervised by a human lighthouse keeper and probably his village. The Hellfire Global building on the island is meant for diplomatic envoys to negotiate between Krakoa and other countries, or CEO's to negotiate business arrangements with Krakoa using the Hellfire Corporation as the liaison.
    We are MUTANT..Krakoa, FOREVER!!! “Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité”

  2. #6782
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Krakoa citizenship doesn't exclude others, being given automatically due to mutant status. Therefore, Wolverine still is a Canadian citizen, Cyclops an American, etc. Therefore, makes no sense for them to be forbidden to go to other places. Krakoa also didn't steal anyone's land and didn't have to kill anyone to exist, unlike some places... Also, Krakoa doesn't make mandatory for any mutant to live there.
    But it does not give a NON-US citizen the right to enter the US bypassing customs. For example...Rahne is Scottish and a citizen of the UK not the US...but Krakoan gates don't discriminate...they let any mutant go thru any gate at any time.

    Also...as a US citizen when I leave and come back to the US I have to go thru a valid point of entry...not just any random place I choose. When I was in California I went to Tijuana a few times...whenever I returned to the country I had to show my ID and declare my citizenship.
    Last edited by Chris0013; 03-02-2021 at 09:14 AM.

  3. #6783
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    I just wanna know if y’all were this mad every time the X-Men took the Blackbird and flew into another country.
    The X-men were heroes back then. They may have bypassed foreign countries’ laws but they acted for everyone’s greater good. It might have been difficult for the characters to accept that, but the reader had no doubt about it.

    Now they have become partisan and their actions are more questionable.

  4. #6784
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nazrel View Post
    Utopia was in the middle of San Francisco harbor with a population smaller then some apartment buildings; why the hell would anyone recognize that as a sovereign nation?
    Exactly this. It'd be like Key West declaring itself an independent nation.
    Still hoping for that Helix Reunion...

    The New X-Men: Can't let you grow up because you make everyone look old. But we can sure as @#$% mindlessly kill you off for shock value!

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  5. #6785
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    Exactly this. It'd be like Key West declaring itself an independent nation.
    Yes in population and scope they were closer to a micro-nation or anarchic/hippie community. So they were more like the San Francisco version of Christinia over in Denmarks Kopenhagen.

    The only difference to these micro-nations or "free communities" was that they housed a few one man armies and people with dangerous super powers. So there was likely also pressure for the government to not recognize them and ecnourage it to be disbanded.

    Though on the subject of micro-nations formed by mutants, i think the concept of a mutant version of the Kownloon Walled City would be interesting for an out of continuity story to explore.
    Last edited by Grunty; 03-02-2021 at 10:26 AM.

  6. #6786
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    My unpopular/controvercial opinion for the day: Marvel 616 universe is not a real place.and is therefor highly subject to the whims and fancies of its creators.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa and Arakko, FOREVER!!!

  7. #6787

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    Quote Originally Posted by zvrk View Post
    Jean Grey also committed mass murder and she's allowed on Krakoa.
    Beast also.
    Iceman too.
    Emma killed a horse.
    Wolverine could be a war criminal, given his past.
    Magneto kills depending on how well prepared is the cappuccino he drinks?

    And Rockslide dead is a big plus. Now we can resurrect Basilisk and Onyxx who are the originals he's a copy of.
    Jean Grey also underwent two trials and died directly following her actions, can anyone else on that list say the same?

    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    And before Utopia mutants had Genosha, the UN seeded Genosha to Magneto, it was what mutants wanted. A homeland of their own, a place to thrive; and what happened? Magneto gets his wish his dream and promptly turns around and declares war on humanity. So humans gave mutants what they always wanted and they use it as a staging ground for war. And worse it made all the anti mutant hardliners, those who were against giving Genova to mutants be right in their opposition. While all those who supported a mutant homeland look foolish and naive. Talk
    about shortsideedness and being ones own worse enemy, mutants had a good thing and threw it away. Now they have Krakoa and UN recognition again and are still doing shady stuff, let's see what happens humans decide mutant drugs are not worth the price of looming destruction.
    Um, I'm not as knowledgeable about Genosha as most but wasn't the very origins of Genosha that mutant were literally stripped of their rights while being exploited and enslaved for profits? Kind of weird to discuss the history of Genosha especially under Magneto's reign WITHOUT mentioning what was done to mutant citizens beforehand...

  8. #6788
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Magneto had two trials and has died more times than Jean, add to it the times he has been put in a coma, tortured and stabbed but I think on that point they are equal.

    Beast, Bobby, Emma and wolverine all died after the recent Secret Wars but then again all the universe died with them so maybe that doesn´t count. I have not read all their stories but all of them have done shaddy stuff but also had pay for it in one way or another.

    Still I think the point is moot, Krakoa is not allowing people in for having a high Ground on virtue or for being perfect, Krakoa is supposed or wants to be a new start for everybody, what everybody does with that new start is their problem but they are also aware there´s an opportunity for them IF they are willing to be open to it.

    I actually hope Si Spurrier touches a little more of this, Percy has done so in his X-force run so I hope to see Nightcrarlwer tackling all those questions on morality, second chance, the perspective on life now that they are virtually inmortal but still too human so they are flawed characters, make mistakes or can be outright malicious and how the other part of the society will answer to it.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 03-02-2021 at 12:56 PM.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  9. #6789
    Astonishing Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    But it does not give a NON-US citizen the right to enter the US bypassing customs. For example...Rahne is Scottish and a citizen of the UK not the US...but Krakoan gates don't discriminate...they let any mutant go thru any gate at any time.

    Also...as a US citizen when I leave and come back to the US I have to go thru a valid point of entry...not just any random place I choose. When I was in California I went to Tijuana a few times...whenever I returned to the country I had to show my ID and declare my citizenship.
    Rahne has lived in the US for years. That said, that's a problem for other countries, as in the real world- I'm pretty site there are less gates in the US as there are airport, ports and border crossings.

  10. #6790
    Mighty Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Rahne has lived in the US for years. That said, that's a problem for other countries, as in the real world- I'm pretty site there are less gates in the US as there are airport, ports and border crossings.
    I doubt there is less gates than airports. Every city probably has one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestialbodies View Post
    Jean Grey also underwent two trials and died directly following her actions, can anyone else on that list say the same?
    .
    her whole family was killed. I don't think anyone suffered more than her on it. majority is just free back to doing crimes

  11. #6791
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    The Shi'ar let Jean be brought back to life, just so they could kill her again

  12. #6792
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Wow poor Jean, I didn´t knew that. When did this happen? it was during fall of the Greys or when they judged young Jean?
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  13. #6793
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Wow poor Jean, I didn´t knew that. When did this happen? it was during fall of the Greys or when they judged young Jean?
    Before End of Greys in Phoenix Endsong. After Jean's death in New X-men, the Shi'ar reawakened the Phoenix prematurely so they could destroy it for good. They tracked it and knew it would head to Earth for Jean where it resurrected her and the mini ended with Jean sacrifcing herself by absorbing the blow of the Shi'ars event horizon weapon. After that they got the idea to kill her entire family so that it couldnt bond with any of them

  14. #6794
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Thanks, I didn´t read that story. It seems they will not stop until they get rid of the phoenix force, I kind of whish marvel had keep the phoenix as a guardian for the M´Kraan Crystal, that would have given it a role to play on cosmic marvel and it would not be seen as just a being of destruction or a quick way to get power like Aaron is doing now.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  15. #6795
    Mighty Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Before End of Greys in Phoenix Endsong. After Jean's death in New X-men, the Shi'ar reawakened the Phoenix prematurely so they could destroy it for good. They tracked it and knew it would head to Earth for Jean where it resurrected her and the mini ended with Jean sacrifcing herself by absorbing the blow of the Shi'ars event horizon weapon. After that they got the idea to kill her entire family so that it couldnt bond with any of them
    Wonder how they feel about everyone is Phoenix now

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