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  1. #1441

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    Quote Originally Posted by FUBAR007 View Post
    Speaking of Magneto, here's an unpopular opinion: he should have stayed dead after Claremont left the books in 1991. X-Men vol. 2 #3 was the perfect ending for him and the character arc Claremont had written for him.
    I just read that ending again now. Yeah, that was amazing. Maybe the post-Claremont 90's Magneto never did quite measure up, but you know Marvel never lets a good character end. They will always milk that sucker till the end.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  2. #1442
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    I just read that ending again now. Yeah, that was amazing. Maybe the post-Claremont 90's Magneto never did quite measure up, but you know Marvel never lets a good character end. They will always milk that sucker till the end.
    Magneto's death should have been the one of the Morrison run, when Genosha is destroyed, because that issue in which the xmen go to a destroyed Genosha, and find a crazy Polaris in whom Magneto had magnetically recorded his last message to the world before dying, was a masterpiece.
    It coluld still be his real death. It wouldnt be hard for the current Magneto to be a creation of the Scarlet Witch, after all she was very mentally unstable and omnipotent at that time in Morrison's run, like a year later she would create the House of M reality, and she created people like her kids too. And the Magneto who died at the end of his run was Xorns brother.
    It would also explain why she isnt his relative anymore. The Magneto that was her relative died in Genosha. The current one is a creature she created when she was crazy and could reshape reality at will.


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  3. #1443

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    Eh. Eve of Destruction was whack, and if Magneto died during the Tri-Sentinel attack on Genosha(or whatever that thing was called) during Morrison's run while sitting on his butt in a wheelchair (recuperating from EoD's Wolvie stabbing him), that would have been even worse. Certainly not better than Claremont's #3. I will say I loved Xorn as a pacifist Chinese X-Man, and was horrified when it was revealed to be Magneto in disguise(who then went on to herd humans into ovens in NYC). Morrison had me until that twist. And Marvel's nonsensical explanations after the fact never made sense.
    Last edited by yogaflame; 07-15-2019 at 07:56 PM.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  4. #1444
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Lol no.

    The majesty of that issue is exactly why his return and subsequent actions in Planet X are so foolish and pathetic. Had Magneto actually died, he’d have become a martyred symbol. Had he chosen to remain Xorn, he’d have been incredibly successful teacher. Magneto REFUSED to evolve and let go, so he had to die.

  5. #1445
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    Lol no.

    The majesty of that issue is exactly why his return and subsequent actions in Planet X are so foolish and pathetic. Had Magneto actually died, he’d have become a martyred symbol. Had he chosen to remain Xorn, he’d have been incredibly successful teacher. Magneto REFUSED to evolve and let go, so he had to die.
    I think the Xorn retcon is even better than what Morrison intended.
    I find the idea of a Chinese mutant, locked in a prison most of his life for being a mutant, pretending to be Magneto (the west's most famous mutant terrorist) and doing a mess in New York and almost succeeding at killing the X-Men, to be even more interesting. And it's quite similar to many of the real life stories that have existed about dangerous cult leaders that claim to be the reincarnation of some famous person from the past.

    This is something that really happened in China, and not that long ago in historical terms Led by Hong Xiuquan, the self-proclaimed brother of Jesus Christ, the goals of the Taipings were religious, nationalist, and political in nature; they sought the conversion of the Chinese people to the Taiping's syncretic version of Christianity, the overthrow of the ruling Manchus, and a wholesale transformation and reformation of the state.[7][8] Rather than simply supplanting the ruling class, the Taipings sought to upend the moral and social order of China.[9] To that end, they established the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom as an oppositional state based in Tianjing (present-day Nanjing) and gained control of a significant part of southern China, eventually expanding to command a population base of nearly 30 million people.

    For over a decade, the Taiping occupied and fought across much of the mid and lower Yangtze valley. Ultimately devolving into total war, the conflict between the Taiping and the Qing was the largest in China since the Qing conquest in 1644 and involved every province of China proper except Gansu. It ranks as one of the bloodiest wars in human history, the bloodiest civil war, and the largest conflict of the 19th century. Estimates of the war dead range from 20–70 million to as high as 100 million, with millions more displaced.[10][11]


    It may be an accident, but the retcon done for commercial and non artistic reasons, ended up being better art, imo.

  6. #1446
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Ok. You do you boo.

  7. #1447
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    I think Polaris connections with Magneto and Havok are actually good and a nice part of her character. They can be problematic but on the X-men and on Marvel in general very few things aren't complicated, I don't think it is fair to blame those relationships for all her problems.
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    I have very biased opinions and i like to voice for the things i like but I'm not trying to deppreciate other things. The line is thin and blur sometimes.

  8. #1448
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Ugh Havok. He’d be the first X-Man I’d kill in a rewrite.

  9. #1449
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    Ugh Havok. Hed be the first X-Man Id kill in a rewrite.
    me too. even ororo wanted to.kill him

  10. #1450
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Of course, I wasn't trying to say that he was perfect but that their connection is not to blame for everything.
    Ranking of favorite characters
    Phoenix/Jean, Cyclops, Wolverine, Storm

    My ships: Jean/Scott, Wanda/Vision, Scott/Logan, Rogue/Gambit, Storm/Black Panther.
    I have very biased opinions and i like to voice for the things i like but I'm not trying to deppreciate other things. The line is thin and blur sometimes.

  11. #1451
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    me too. even ororo wanted to.kill him
    Should we compare kill lists?

    Polaris is an interesting character, but I always run out of room when I do fictional rosters. She’s the kind of character you want her to get a job in a suburb and pull off her wig when the red phone rings.

  12. #1452
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    I just read that ending again now. Yeah, that was amazing. Maybe the post-Claremont 90's Magneto never did quite measure up, but you know Marvel never lets a good character end. They will always milk that sucker till the end.
    #1-3 were in my collection but we all know after the cartoon would come out in 1993 (at least that's when my country got it) they would've dug up old Erik anyway and all time lines would lead to Morrison.
    "Cable was right!"

  13. #1453
    Incredible Member baltiroo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    me too. even ororo wanted to.kill him
    I know, right?! haha

    That said, I have always liked Havok even if he's kind of a royal eff up.
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  14. #1454
    Unapologetic Feminist Shadowcat's Avatar
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    The New X-Men are the bologna Barb of the franchise. Not good enough for the big league Bella X-Men.

  15. #1455
    Unapologetic Feminist Shadowcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    I figured it was obvious the context I'm suggesting would omit Kitty's introduction, and insert Rogue's appearance at the School far earlier.



    Well, I did delete the original line 6: The Grey family is retconned to Reform Jewish, making JEAN the first full-blooded Jewish x-woman, and Rachel a Jewish survivor of a mutant Holocaust... Kitty's Jewishness is important, but I felt it was far more ornamental than narratively engaged. By making Rachel Jewish, she can engage that heritage and history head-on, when she reconnects with her mother's family over Shabbos dinner.
    Sounds like they made Jean a culture vulture, since her brother was an Episcopalian clergyman. Also, Kitty’s Jewishness was never ornamental when Claremont wrote her. It was a very important part of her identity.

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