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  1. #8836
    Mighty Member nnelg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    A Jean Grey school and a Professor X school should exist simultaneously.
    I have always felt that there should be a Charles Xavier school for Gifted Youngsters and a Magento version where he trains solders for the war against humans.

  2. #8837
    Astonishing Member Habis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nnelg View Post
    I have always felt that there should be a Charles Xavier school for Gifted Youngsters and a Magento version where he trains solders for the war against humans.
    I think the idea of a secret school for young mutants would work better if they had some plan for adult mutants besides working as teachers in the same school... I dunno... they could have shown the X-Men studying at college under Moira's patronage (Beast could study genetics directly under her). And later, they could show the X-Men holding jobs in a pharmaceutical multinational company owned by Xavier that he uses as cover to help mutants...etc.

    (But not the East India Company, please...)

    Later, when Xavier was outed as a mutant, they could create Mutants Sans Frontiers...

  3. #8838
    Astonishing Member Celestialbodies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nnelg View Post
    I have always felt that there should be a Charles Xavier school for Gifted Youngsters and a Magento version where he trains solders for the war against humans.

    I feel like that's also what Xavier had been doing since the school's inception, how else do we explain the Xavier hate train and Cyclops man-angst of the early and late 00's.

  4. #8839
    Astonishing Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    X-men were always a paramilitary unit disguised as a school.

  5. #8840
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    X-men were always a paramilitary unit disguised as a school.
    Exactly Magnetoīs brotherhood was supposed to be an answer to the X-men, not the other way around but after the silver age, the dissolution of the original brotherhood and Magneto being turned into an infant and then being forced to grow up. Magneto usually acted on his own as a villain and didnīt try to create a group to fight the X-men again, later, when he joined the X-men the first time, his training of the New Mutants was more about self defense than being a paramilitar army or even a super hero group, the New mutants saw it as Magneto not caring about other people while Magneto just saw them as too young to be fighting on their own in dangerous places and that the X-men were already there to do that. I donīt think he even trained personally the acolytes, they had training to defend themselves but not to be an actual army, now Genosha did have an army and the acolytes were part of it but Genosha had a goverment with mutant and human members. I always thought this could have been explored more because it was very interesting that Magneto had Genosha, his dream at last a reality, but it was with a goverment shared with the human side of Genoshaīs that wanted to free the mutant slaves and who fought the magistrates for this end, creating a civil war. Sadly this was never really explored before Genosha was destroyed.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 01-14-2022 at 05:35 PM.
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  6. #8841
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    X-men were always a paramilitary unit disguised as a school.
    Xavier's School for Mutant Child Soldiers.

  7. #8842
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Xavier's School for Mutant Child Soldiers.
    Well to be fair, Xavier original intention was to have a super hero group formed of mutants whose main objective was to show mutants also cared for humanity like the Avengers or the FF4 it was only the fact they were mutants the thing that stopped the X-men from being seen in the same light than those other teams but most mutants at the time were quite young so the original x-men were adolescents while the second generation were young adults and on the other hand he has been called off by his original students more than once, for this reason while they agreed with him the existence of the X-men was neccesary.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 01-14-2022 at 05:34 PM.
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  8. #8843
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Well to be fair, Xavier original intention was to have a super hero group formed of mutants whose main objective was to show mutants also cared for humanity like the Avengers or the FF4 it was only the fact they were mutants the thing that stopped the X-men from being seen in the same light than those other teams but most mutants at the time were quite young so the original x-men were adolescents while the second generation were young adults.
    It should also be taken into account that they were not as public as the FF or Avengers. They did early on have contact with an FBI Agent but over time left that behind. Imagine if the X-Men were more public like X-Factor was after the Fall of The Mutants. Interacting with the authorities and the public on a more normal basis.

  9. #8844
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    It should also be taken into account that they were not as public as the FF or Avengers. They did early on have contact with an FBI Agent but over time left that behind. Imagine if the X-Men were more public like X-Factor was after the Fall of The Mutants. Interacting with the authorities and the public on a more normal basis.
    The Original X-factor, created by the O5 X-men, were still hidden, and posed as humans dedicated to stop mutant crisis and evil mutants, the reason for this was that even as early as the first X-men issue Charles and the X-men considered too dangerous for them to show themselves openly as mutants, at the time nobody knew Xavier was a mutant so he was seen as a human activist for pro-mutant rights, just like later Moira would be seen and then after Bolivar Trask created MasterMold, only convinced them that the fight of the X-men was good but that they could not do so the same way the Avengers or the FF4 did.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 01-14-2022 at 05:48 PM.
    "To the X-men then, who donīt die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

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  10. #8845
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Well to be fair, Xavier original intention was to have a super hero group formed of mutants whose main objective was to show mutants also cared for humanity like the Avengers or the FF4 it was only the fact they were mutants the thing that stopped the X-men from being seen in the same light than those other teams but most mutants at the time were quite young so the original x-men were adolescents while the second generation were young adults and on the other hand he has been called off by his original students more than once, for this reason while they agreed with him the existence of the X-men was neccesary.
    If i recall right the super hero comics of the time the X-men were created had a lot of elements which to a modern audience might carry unfortunate implication or draw negative parrelels, which weren't seen as such at the time (the Comic Code Authority ironicaly saw nothing wrong with teenagers being turned into a secret fighting force... but god help you if you mentioned drugs even in negative sense).
    Also the primary audience for these comics were older kids and teenagers for whom the idea of getting super powers naturaly (rather than needing an elaborate accident or being a super genius who can create the source of the powers/tech) just from becomming teenagers and then getting trained to be super heros was a wish fullfillment fantasy.

    Oh and interesting side note. Even the FF were original considered to hide thier identities, but during the drawing of the first issues this was removed.
    Last edited by Grunty; 01-14-2022 at 05:57 PM.

  11. #8846
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    The Original X-factor, created by the O5 X-men, were still hidden, and posed as humans dedicated to stop mutant crisis and evil mutants, the reason for this was that even as early as the first X-men issue Charles and the X-men considered too dangerous for them to show themselves openly as mutants, at the time nobody knew Xavier was a mutant so he was seen as a human activist for pro-mutant rights, just like later Moira would be seen and then after Bolivar Trask created MasterMold, only convinced them that the fight of the X-men was good but that they could not do so the same way the Avengers or the FF4 did.
    Which is why I said after the FoTM...when the public saw them running around helping people and were on there side.

  12. #8847
    Astonishing Member Habis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Well to be fair, Xavier original intention was to have a super hero group formed of mutants whose main objective was to show mutants also cared for humanity like the Avengers or the FF4 it was only the fact they were mutants the thing that stopped the X-men from being seen in the same light than those other teams but most mutants at the time were quite young so the original x-men were adolescents while the second generation were young adults and on the other hand he has been called off by his original students more than once, for this reason while they agreed with him the existence of the X-men was neccesary.
    Before Kitty Pryde joined the X-Men she thought they were "a group of super-heroes like the Avengers"; she didn't even seem to have known that they were mutants...

  13. #8848
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post
    If i recall right the super hero comics of the time the X-men were created had a lot of elements which to a modern audience might carry unfortunate implication or draw negative parrelels, which weren't seen as such at the time (the Comic Code Authority ironicaly saw nothing wrong with teenagers being turned into a secret fighting force... but god help you if you mentioned drugs even in negative sense).
    Exactly, at the time it was common for super heros to have young sidekicks helping them like Robin or SpiderMan who started when he was sixteeen.

    Also the primary audience for these comics were older kids and teenagers for whom the idea of getting super powers naturaly (rather than needing an elaborate accident or being a super genius who can create the source of the powers/tech) just from becomming teenagers and then getting trained to be super heros was a wish fullfillment fantasy.
    Yes thatīs why Xavier being criticized for training the O5 is a very recent development after a revision of the original stories but most of the adventures the X-men had as a teenagers, were send exactly as that, as adventures and later while the New Mutants began to introduce the conflict of having youngster fighthing violent villians, it was even more criticized the fact that they would not be allowed to be trained and become heros.

    But with the politics of todays comics Xavier actions donīt have such a good light but I donīt think this should be taken agaisnt the character, there are other things that could be criticized when it comes to his leadership but not something thatīs more a product of itīs time than something truly devious on his part as the founder of the x-men.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Which is why I said after the FoTM...when the public saw them running around helping people and were on there side.
    Yes but thereīs having a part of people supporting them while having other groups agaisnt them and then thereīs letting them know where they lived. Things were better but not enough for the main public to know where they lived.

    Quote Originally Posted by Habis View Post
    Before Kitty Pryde joined the X-Men she thought they were "a group of super-heroes like the Avengers"; she didn't even seem to have known that they were mutants...
    Yes to Kitty they were just the "Xavier School for Young Talents" she only knew they were the X-men after the HFC tried to Kidnap her and they defended her. The X-men being hidden was the status quo. Other superteams knew about them but not so much the public in general.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 01-14-2022 at 06:11 PM.
    "To the X-men then, who donīt die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

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  14. #8849
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Exactly, at the time it was common for super heros to have young sidequicks helping them like Robin or SpiderMan who started when he was sixteeen.



    Yes thatīs why Xavier being criticized for training the O5 is a very recent development after a revision of the original stories but most of the adventures the X-men had as a teenagers, were send exactly as that, as adventures and later while the New Mutants began to introduce the conflict of having youngster fighthing violent villians, it was even more criticized the fact that they would not be allowed to be trained and become heros.

    But with the politics of todays comics Xavier actions donīt have such a good light but I donīt think this should be taken agaisnt the character, there are other things that could be criticized when it comes to his leadership but not something thatīs more a product of itīs time than something truly devious on his part as the founder of the x-men.
    Charles Xavier vs Child Protective Services....It don't look good for Charlie this time.

  15. #8850
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Charles Xavier vs Child Protective Services....It don't look good for Charlie this time.
    No it would not look good at all , especially if you add they were supposed to be his students and the adult responsible with their parents permision, without the parents being aware, until later, that they would become X-men imo I think it was precisely this reason why Claremont introduced fully adult new X-men, like he definitely was not going to get into that legal conflict with the founder of the super hero team he was writting.

    But Claremont tackled this conflict in a different way, thereīs a hearbreaking panel in which Magneto is thinking and regretting over having to tell Dougīs parents his child was dead and he had to lie to them about the school to protect the X-men secret saying he died on an accident instead of defending one of his friends from a mutant killer, you felt for him because he definitely was not trying to turn the NM into the new X-men, you felt for the parents because they were not aware of the reality of the situation and you felt for the new mutants because they were just trying to be heros like the X-men but didnīt have yet the preparation or maturity to be a super hero team.

    Now I am glad Hickman gave Doug Ramsey such a badass role on Inferno but I always thought his original death worked because the story felt very close to home and human, like a middle point between the adventure part of the story and the reality that such an activity is not for teenagers.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 01-14-2022 at 06:50 PM.
    "To the X-men then, who donīt die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

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