Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[Ferro]

Brian is really hot

hes just soooo dreamy, but he hitched with homegirl meggan so we respect, i just wish the hot genes didnt just go to the twins... and the basic human decency genes as well

[Chris0013]

Nah, one of the problems the X-books have had for years is that they either kill off any human allies they have or reveal they were *GASP* mutants the entire time. It cheapens the entire endeavor that the they basically have no human friends, and the implication that to be important in the X-books you must be a mutant.

Agree. Non-mutant allies are important (IMHO). Neil and Sharon were basically super soldiers after the Demon Bear story...but were relegated to taking out the trash. They should have been portrayed more prominently at the school as staff. Mimic, Juggernaut and Longshot were not mutants...but were on the team. Having non-mutant allies strengthens them.


As for as unpopular opinion...am I the only one who wants Kade Kilgore and the rest of the Hellfire Tweens turning into chum for a deep see shark fishing trip??

[Anodyne]

Madelyn Pryor was a lousy, creepy plot device long before Jean was ever resurrected. Her being a clone that made a pact with demons made her vastly more interesting and tragic. Mostly when Claremont himself was writing her and was able to make her more sympathetic, the other writers who make her too evil to absolve Scott don't do it as well.

The X-Men are jerks for letting Scott rush into a marriage with a woman he barely knows who looks just like his dead fiance, but the narrative doesn't treat them as such for some reason.

Turning Madelyne into "a synthetic villain to let Scott off the hook," as one letter-writer put it back then, is what I find hard to forgive. And those who bring her back only to demonize her again just make things worse.,

I wish Maddie's resemblance to Jean had been revealed as an illusion cast by Mastermind.

How is it the X-men's fault that ScottNew Mutants. married Madelyn? He is a grown ass man who decided of his own free will to marry her. He was not pressured, manipulated or forced to do it and it was something he clearly wanted to do, Scott's choices are his own. Can the man never take responsibility for his own actions, must it always be someone else to take the blame when he screws up? The X-men are absolved from any blame for Scott's marriage to Maddie, and they most certainly are not jerks for "letting" him do it. That was all on him, the X-men have their own lives to live, it's not their job to watch or manage Scott's decisions. And it's not their fault for his actions, it's all on him.

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Agreed. And please stop blaming Maddie for dragging Scott away from the X-Men. He proposed to her by asking, "How about coming with me?" into deep space with his dad and the Starjammers. He said nothing to make her think that the X-Men were anything other than a cherished part of his past. She was supportive when he went to Asgard with the X-Men to rescue the New Mutants. "I understand. Those kids are counting on you." She didn't ask him to leave the X-Men until his own behavior (e.g. not calling his pregnant wife from Paris) made her fear them as rivals.

Marvel should just have turn Maddie into Jean's reincarnation with amnesia, she wins her memories back and she returns to be Jean Grey again.

Aren't reincarnated people supposed to come back as newborn babies?

I like the concept of Madelyne but I don't think she's ever been used to her fullest potential. It honestly would just be easier to make her Jean's reincarnation, and give Jean that needed edge of being a badass "flatscan" for a while before her powers / memories would resurface in time for X-Factor. Inferno could be a story that centers entirely around Magik, who is ultimately the single character to come out of it with lasting consequences - bar maybe Cable but surely something could be done with him then as well.

It would have been more elegant to give Maddie an heroic death saving her son than turning her into a half naked demon queen who wanted to sacrifice her son. she was a mistake, but they got rid of her in a very bad way.

I proposed something like that in Madelyne's old Appreciation Thread. It would allowed her to exit with honor.

They seem to be around here, though I don't visit these boards that often.



If I notice a close friend of mine, one who is practically family, rushing into a marriage (a serious commitment) with a woman he barely knows who looks exactly like his dead fiance that died in front of him and induced serious mental trauma not a year previous, I'd be concerned for his mental health and question the wisdom of the decision. At the very least I would talk to him to make my concerns known, for both his sake and hers, even if the decision is ultimately his. None of the X-Men should be surprised it didn't turn out that well, even if they can justifiably be angry at Scott for seemingly abandoning Maddie. Like how did Hank, who'd been away from the group for so long, not arrive at that wedding and instantly go "um, what the ****?"

Then again this is the same crowd that had no problem with Kurt banging his (adopted) sister, and Peter Rasputin dating a 13-14 year old, so maybe this should come as no surprise.

Peter was a teenager himself at the time. And Kitty pursued him more than he did her.

Yeah, which was creepy, but what really creeps me out is how Jean doesn't just get back with Scott, but also replaces Maddie as little Nathan's mother. Now, nothing wrong with stepmothers and adoption and all that, but the takeover was just too complete and just...creepy. It was like Maddie never existed while Scott and Jean just went about their lives with their baby.

They should just have gone with the Maddie is Jean without memories

Well to be fair, Maddie was NEVER intended to be a clone of Jean in any single way... that came much, much later, when they decided to do X-FACTOR and needed an easy reason for Scott to leave... Jean alive... OK. But him just bailing on Maddie seems harsh. Oh. Let's just make her a clone of Jean.

Effing horrible.

That just makes it all so much worse.

Also, I know this isn't a controversial opinion, but don't some of these writers, like, ever realize how bad some of these are? Like, Scott just getting with a woman who looks exactly like the love of his life and then ditching her when said love returns? And we're not supposed to despise him completely?

If you've never read the end part (the interview) in Phoenix: The Untold Story... you should. Clairemont brought this whole point up (of Scott leaving because Jean had been resurrected). The story of Scott and Maddie had an interesting dynamic (before the whole clone thing) because - yeah, it was weird. But we SAW Scott struggling with it. Wondering if she was Jean. And in the end, actually falls in love with Maddie not because of who she looks like, but who she is (I want to say this was around UXM 176 with the giant octopus thing)

To be fair I remember Scott actually didn't just resume his romance with Jean right away. He was being standoffish and distant with Jean so much so I remember them fighting over it and Jean used her powers! This was an awful situation for all three involved and for Jean you have to imagine what it would be like to come back to life and the man who proposed to you just before you died is married to someone who looks just like you. I'm not saying what they did was right but I imagine making the right decision isn't easy here.

And yes! Revealing Maddie to be Jean instead would have prevented a lot of awfulness.

I think we can all agree that the transition to the original X-Factor was... not great. I see why Claremont tried to hamfist some Mr. Sinister programming into Scott to explain, but even on the face of it, Scott flying to NYC when he's told that Jean is alive is crappy, but understandable. Yes, he should talk to his wife about it. It's pretty much unforgivable (but notably almost exactly the same way Warren reacts)

If we can find it in ourselves to be charitable, Scott has a bit of a breakdown here. Jean has been dead for a while, he had seen "her" die on the moon. His mind is reeling. How does he explain it to Maddie? And if we think of what the conversation was like - how it was for Jean, coming into this new world and her last moments had been about saving Scott and her friends - that she is in a vulnerable place and needs to see the person she loves most. I suppose an analogy would be a comatose patient waking up and wanting to see their spouse... is it unreasonable that Warren would ask that Scott come?

And right there, in that moment, Maddie gives Scott the ultimatum - "If you walk out that door, don't bother coming back". Even when Scott sees Jean, he holds himself back. He's conflicted. Jean leaves, blowing out the side of the building. Warren tells Scott to go after her, but he can't, he can't think, he's having a breakdown. He goes off for two weeks until Bobby and Hank find him. Again, his behavior isn't great, but it isn't "jumps right into bed with Jean." When he finally calls Maddie in issue 2, the phone number is disconnected. I don't think he actually "gets" with Jean until Fall of the Mutants when he sees the tape of Madeline going to her death with the X-men.

TL;DR - Scott's behavior is bad, but not as callous as often said.

Nah, one of the problems the X-books have had for years is that they either kill off any human allies they have or reveal they were *GASP* mutants the entire time. It cheapens the entire endeavor that the they basically have no human friends, and the implication that to be important in the X-books you must be a mutant.

I'l finish editing my post tomorrow. Or not.

[SiegePerilous02]

Turning Madelyne into "a synthetic villain to let Scott off the hook," as one letter-writer put it back then, is what I find hard to forgive. And those who bring her back only to demonize her again just make things worse.,

I wish Maddie's resemblance to Jean had been revealed as an illusion cast by Mastermind.

Mastermind even said he would have cast that illusion on any woman Scott fell in love with, which is honestly what should have happened. As it is written, the clone origin is kind of needed to explain all those coincidences that are too hard to take seriously. Claremont has himself to blame in part for that one.

That's also why Claremont is the best writer for Goblyn Queen Maddie, because he does NOT let Scott completely off the hook. I avoid everything 90s related for the X-Men like the plague so I imagine if and when Maddie showed up there, it was very bad. I'm hoping Wells just writes it as this being the first time we've seen her since Inferno.
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Peter was a teenager himself at the time. And Kitty pursued him more than he did her.

He reads as an older, late teen (like 18 or so at the youngest) who has already fathered a child at this point. And Kitty pursuing him doesn't mean he has to reciprocate.

[adamTPTK]

Yeah, when talking about this stuff, you really do have to treat Lee and Kirby's original creation almost as a different thing entirely.

Actually, they are not given enough credit. Claremont is the one who brought charm, dimensions and reflection, but Lee/Kirby are the foundation without which none of this would be possible. Homo Superior and Magneto's Brotherhood, human primal fear and the Sentinels, and of course Professor X, school and o5.

How could they be a metaphor about human condition with the immortality thing? That removes them of any existential angst. (Well, if Magneto has stayed in Susan's bubble forever, he would have ended to feel a bit angsty… surely)

Everything about mutants is just an extension of human condition. Their perception of reality, their very existential struggle (both physical and philosophical) is being experienced through the filters of "sapien" methodology. The more "extranormal" experiences could be called then "posthuman condition" since it goes to explore the expanding nature of posthuman sensory experience (beyond humanly normal). One of the reasons I disliked Hickman adopting the more recent ideas that posthumans=transhumans. Initially posthumanism assumed every possible evolution of human condition, even psychic. But since it is considered far more obscure and less likely than technological singularity, the former line of thought have naturally become predominant. But not in 616 reality. In this reality mutants, or other extranormal people could be as well be considered posthumans. Right now current philosophers look at technology as our answer to immortality. It's not like it hasn't occupied our minds since the dawn of thought.

[ohsnapulon5000]

Polaris and Frenzy are thick girls and should be drawn as such

[CRaymond]

Polaris and Frenzy are thick girls and should be drawn as such

Yaasss thick gurl Friendzee

E377C44A-5017-4566-9237-43B50FBDC1F8.jpg

[Zelena]

Everything about mutants is just an extension of human condition. Their perception of reality, their very existential struggle (both physical and philosophical) is being experienced through the filters of "sapien" methodology.

It's something I felt with Claremont, and much less with Hickman. The devil is in the details: for that, the characters must reflect on the situation they live through the lens of their humanity.

A human who has powers stays a human. A human who has immortality stays a human. Because he experiments this reality through human perceptions and human experience.

If the author decide the characters must act differently because now they live in a different environment, in a new reality… their actions feel less logical and less human…

[ohsnapulon5000]

Frenzy should just start wielding big ass industrial cords of chains. She should totally go back to her leather look but always have like the manacles on chains that she's like always busting through entire city blocks wearing as a lavalier and bracelets.

[KangMiRae]

People still trying to call Kitty "Kate" or "Captain Kate"

[houndsofluv]

tenor.jpg

10 char xoxo

[spirit2011]

People still trying to call Kitty "Kate" or "Captain Kate"

Kate doesn't have personality

[Havok83]

People still trying to call Kitty "Kate" or "Captain Kate"

Her name is Kitty and always will be Kitty. She cant just up and change her name 40 years later as if thats gonna stick

[Maestroneto]

Deadnaming is shitty behaviour.

[Havok83]

good thing thats not whats happening here