Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[Paleo_Rage]

Meh. The X-Men don't just "feel that way", they actually are actively oppressed and persecuted by society and sometimes even the government. Being LGBT is not the only thing of course, as there's also the parallels with racism, xenophobia, etc, but this whole "The mutant metaphor is equally about EVERYONE!!!" feels more and more like just cishet white people being annoyed that actual minorities can relate more closely to the prejudice the X-Men suffer. I constantly see you trying to "correct" people with this when they mention how the X-Men relate to actual minorities and it feels so mean-spirited in a way.

A read and a clock..

[Tycon]

Meh. The X-Men don't just "feel that way", they actually are actively oppressed and persecuted by society and sometimes even the government. Being LGBT is not the only thing of course, as there's also the parallels with racism, xenophobia, etc, but this whole "The mutant metaphor is equally about EVERYONE!!!" feels more and more like just cishet white people being annoyed that actual minorities can relate more closely to the prejudice the X-Men suffer. I constantly see you trying to "correct" people with this when they mention how the X-Men relate to actual minorities and it feels so mean-spirited in a way.

this this also this and maybe a bit of this

[PsychoEFrost]

Meh. The X-Men don't just "feel that way", they actually are actively oppressed and persecuted by society and sometimes even the government. Being LGBT is not the only thing of course, as there's also the parallels with racism, xenophobia, etc, but this whole "The mutant metaphor is equally about EVERYONE!!!" feels more and more like just cishet white people being annoyed that actual minorities can relate more closely to the prejudice the X-Men suffer. I constantly see you trying to "correct" people with this when they mention how the X-Men relate to actual minorities and it feels so mean-spirited in a way.

As a White Straight American Agnostic Male...

^THIS^

[lurkerforyears]

I disagree, and I am latin american if that matters.
I think the X-Men, if treated correctly, should be very grounded sci-fi, kinda similar to Gattaca.
X-Men books always have to ignore or downplay the fact that superpowers are indeed an advantage, and also very dangerous, in order to write stories in which mutants are as opressed as real world minorities.

[Zelena]

I disagree, and I am latin american if that matters.
I think the X-Men, if treated correctly, should be very grounded sci-fi, kinda similar to Gattaca.
X-Men books always have to ignore or downplay the fact that superpowers are indeed an advantage, and also very dangerous, in order to write stories in which mutants are as opressed as real world minorities.

The thing is: why a reader would relate to people that have superpowers, he/she doesn't have superpowers. By the way I find funny when some people side completely with mutants calling disdainfully humans "flatline"… and forget that they are humans. We follow their adventures, we are with them with their joys and pains… but we're the plain boring humans.
Right, they are oppressed… but who don't feel oppressed… the very rich, those belonging to the well-off class.
So if we have something in common with mutants, it's their humanity. They are not very different from us, not particulariy more clever, nor kinder: they are just humans with superpowers.

[Shadowcat]

Meh. The X-Men don't just "feel that way", they actually are actively oppressed and persecuted by society and sometimes even the government. Being LGBT is not the only thing of course, as there's also the parallels with racism, xenophobia, etc, but this whole "The mutant metaphor is equally about EVERYONE!!!" feels more and more like just cishet white people being annoyed that actual minorities can relate more closely to the prejudice the X-Men suffer. I constantly see you trying to "correct" people with this when they mention how the X-Men relate to actual minorities and it feels so mean-spirited in a way.

All. Of. This. Warms my queer Jew heart.

[Ulfhammer]

Meh. The X-Men don't just "feel that way", they actually are actively oppressed and persecuted by society and sometimes even the government. Being LGBT is not the only thing of course, as there's also the parallels with racism, xenophobia, etc, but this whole "The mutant metaphor is equally about EVERYONE!!!" feels more and more like just cishet white people being annoyed that actual minorities can relate more closely to the prejudice the X-Men suffer. I constantly see you trying to "correct" people with this when they mention how the X-Men relate to actual minorities and it feels so mean-spirited in a way.

For a kid who spent most of my first 12 years of life on and off in ICU wards, I certainly know a thing or two about being disenfranchised or being an outsider. I didn't "feel" that way. It was very often a shitty life. Nurses and orderlies were my best friends, I learned to read in a hospital school, hooked up to machines to keep me alive. I had no social skills because I spent my time surrounded by adults, so I was bullied mercilessly when I finally joined the main stream school system.

Suffering is for everyone. No one owns it an no one gets to tell anyone else how good or bad their life was. I've got a great life now, but reading the X-Men back in the day, and seeing how hard their lives were, but how much courage they showed helped motivate me when I didn't see much hope. The lessons I learned and the connection I have with the X-Men isn't something you or anyone else gets to marginalize.

[lurkerforyears]

The thing is: why a reader would relate to people that have superpowers, he/she doesn't have superpowers. By the way I find funny when some people side completely with mutants calling disdainfully humans "flatline"… and forget that they are humans. We follow their adventures, we are with them with their joys and pains… but we're the plain boring humans.
Right, they are oppressed… but who don't feel oppressed… the very rich, those belonging to the well-off class.
So if we have something in common with mutants, it's their humanity. They are not very different from us, not particulariy more clever, nor kinder: they are just humans with superpowers.

I don't think the xmen work that well as avatars of real minorities because, if in the real world we want to regulate guns, shouldnt we also want to regulate to some degree someone like Cyclops who can destroy buildings with his eyes? or telepaths who could manipulate a lot of things like the stock market

the bigots of the real world we live in don't have any valid point, the bigots of the marvel universe do have a point, but the writers generally ignore it completely and write them like cartoons

[scourge]

I don't think the xmen work that well as avatars of real minorities because, if in the real world we want to regulate guns, shouldnt we also want to regulate to some degree someone like Cyclops who can destroy buildings with his eyes? or telepaths who could manipulate a lot of things like the stock market

the bigots of the real world we live in don't have any valid point, the bigots of the marvel universe do have a point, but the writers generally ignore it completely and write them like cartoons

The real world =/= Comics world.

[PsychoEFrost]

I don't think the xmen work that well as avatars of real minorities because, if in the real world we want to regulate guns, shouldnt we also want to regulate to some degree someone like Cyclops who can destroy buildings with his eyes? or telepaths who could manipulate a lot of things like the stock market

the bigots of the real world we live in don't have any valid point, the bigots of the marvel universe do have a point, but the writers generally ignore it completely and write them like cartoons

It doesn't work 1 to 1, but that was never the point.

[Wiccan]

For a kid who spent most of my first 12 years of life on and off in ICU wards, I certainly know a thing or two about being disenfranchised or being an outsider. I didn't "feel" that way. It was very often a shitty life. Nurses and orderlies were my best friends, I learned to read in a hospital school, hooked up to machines to keep me alive. I had no social skills because I spent my time surrounded by adults, so I was bullied mercilessly when I finally joined the main stream school system.

Suffering is for everyone. No one owns it an no one gets to tell anyone else how good or bad their life was. I've got a great life now, but reading the X-Men back in the day, and seeing how hard their lives were, but how much courage they showed helped motivate me when I didn't see much hope. The lessons I learned and the connection I have with the X-Men isn't something you or anyone else gets to marginalize.

That's great for you(well, the part where the X-Men helped, not what you went through), but the fact that in a general sense the X-Men can be relatable to most people doesn't change that the actual stories are much more closely tied into matters of minorities struggles. There are stories about them being oppressed by religion, by racist groups, bigoted politicians. There are stories about parents finding out their kids aren't "normal", about mutants not wanting others to know they're mutants and trying to pass, about mutants who look physically different and can't hide it not being able to live normally in society.

The idea that anyone who has suffered by being an outsider can relate to the X-Men when it comes to the metaphor isn't wrong, but it's honestly more surface-level. I never said others didn't suffer. But it's a fact that some have suffered for much more similar reasons to the ones which the X-Men do.

[Electricmastro]

I don't think the xmen work that well as avatars of real minorities because, if in the real world we want to regulate guns, shouldnt we also want to regulate to some degree someone like Cyclops who can destroy buildings with his eyes? or telepaths who could manipulate a lot of things like the stock market

the bigots of the real world we live in don't have any valid point, the bigots of the marvel universe do have a point, but the writers generally ignore it completely and write them like cartoons

I'm reminded of someone who made an interesting point regarding 2002's X-Statix, who were these mutants that were made to be more like media celebrities than anything else. It struck me with the conscious realization that, yes, while there's racism and other forms of superiority-fueled hateful oppression in the world, at the same time, there are black people that managed to become successful celebrities and popularly received by and large, whether they be actors like Samuel L. Jackson, athletes like LeBron James, or musicians like Jay Z. Just as there can be a benefit in showing that mutants can be a parallel to minorities getting oppressed, at the same time, I think there can be also a benefit in reinforcing the idea that it's possible for a minority person to gain success and acceptance, and that they're not guaranteed to forever suffer.

[The tall man]

1) Colossus: I still see him as a pretty decent person, albeit traumatized by being Xavier's soldier. I think stories about him dealing with that pain, doing therapy and rehabilitating himself would be much more interesting than portraying him as the crazy ex again.

2) Logan's behavior towards Jean has been very problematic since ever. He constantly harasses and molests her. That's worse than anything on Scemma or Kittylossus.

3) I don't see Rogue and Gambit as classic X-Men. I don't even think their characters work well there. But maybe could suit X-Force.

Regarding #2, honestly when is the last time you could say that Wolverine harassed Jean because I can't recall it. And as far as molestation, that has categorically never happened. Does Jean look like some helpless defenseless woman that will allow herself to be molested by anyone? Yes early on Logan was attracted to and flirted with Jean but he never crossed a line with her, and he respected her relationship with Scott. And when Jean came to him to initiate something he refused her because he knew it was wrong. So yeah it's the same old tired attack line to use on Logan but it has no validity in reality. He is no longer pinning for Jean and he moved on to other relationships. Besides the love of Logan's life is Mariko not Jean and he harbors no romantic feelings for Jean any longer. He cares for her and she cares for him, that is the extent of it. Trying to make Logan out to be some sexual predator who assaults women is disingenuous. Logan has never forced himself on anyone and if he did I'm sure that would have been bought up long ago and been a talking point in this era of "me too". Try another attack line.

[TheCape]

Regarding #2, honestly when is the last time you could say that Wolverine harassed Jean because I can't recall it. And as far as molestation, that has categorically never happened. Does Jean look like some helpless defenseless woman that will allow herself to be molested by anyone? Yes early on Logan was attracted to and flirted with Jean but he never crossed a line with her, and he respected her relationship with Scott. And when Jean came to him to initiate something he refused her because he knew it was wrong. So yeah it's the same old tired attack line to use on Logan but it has no validity in reality. He is no longer pinning for Jean and he moved on to other relationships. Besides the love of Logan's life is Mariko not Jean and he harbors no romantic feelings for Jean any longer. He cares for her and she cares for him, that is the extent of it. Trying to make Logan out to be some sexual predator who assaults women is disingenuous. Logan has never forced himself on anyone and if he did I'm sure that would have been bought up long ago and been a talking point in this era of "me too". Try another attack line.

As a Logan fan, i would argue that yes, in the early days he did come across as an stalker toward Jean and his conduct was really close to sexual harrasment. Personally i assume it mostly happened because he was still acting more like an aninal than a man after what happened with Weapon X (a trauma that he never really recovered from), so is not surprise that he basically has no boundaries, after some time he realized how awfull he was acting (mostly thanks to Mariko and his friendship with Kurt and Piort) and make an effort to let her be happy, put her wishes above his. Still his behavior early is still crappy though, so if people really dislike him, i can't really blame then.

[The tall man]

As a Logan fan, i would argue that yes, in the early days he did come across as an stalker toward Jean and his conduct was really close to sexual harrasment. Personally i assume it mostly happened because he was still acting more like an aninal than a man after what happened with Weapon X (a trauma that he never really recovered from), so is not surprise that he basically has no boundaries, after some time he realized how awfull he was acting (mostly thanks to Mariko and his friendship with Kurt and Piort) and make an effort to let her be happy, put her wishes above his. Still his behavior early is still crappy though, so if people really dislike him, i can't really blame then.

How far back does one have to go to use that argument, the late 70s, early 80s? Logan flirted with Jean that's it, he never stalked her and he never crossed a line that veered into sexual harassment or assault. And as a Wolverine fan you're ok with him being accused of molestation? Something that categorically never happened, Come on really! As things stand now Logan and Jean are the best of friends that care deeply for each other. Clearly she harbors no ill will towards him so these attacks against him are baseless and if some people dislike him for "crappy behavior" from 35+ years ago then too bad. You want to hate Logan for over saturation, for mixed characterzation, for so called hypocrisy then fine, but hating for non existent sexual assault and molestation is ridiculous.