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  1. #2686
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    I think people are desperate for any positive change for the X-Men, since they've been the abused step-child of Marvel for several years now.
    The thing is that they don't quite care if the change is for the positive or the negative or, to be quite frank, even all that different or evocative. I maintain that there is nothing here that Hickman is doing that is entirely unique. His story reeks of elements from Morrison, Claremont, the Utopia days, etc. It's well written but I don't think anyone genuinely wants the X-Men and all of mutantkind to become polygamists or wants to see them at war with humans for the umpteenth time.

    "I'll always love you, Jean Grey." "I'll always love you too, Scott Summers." - Scott Summers and Jean Grey

  2. #2687
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    The thing is that they don't quite care if the change is for the positive or the negative or, to be quite frank, even all that different or evocative. I maintain that there is nothing here that Hickman is doing that is entirely unique. His story reeks of elements from Morrison, Claremont, the Utopia days, etc. It's well written but I don't think anyone genuinely wants the X-Men and all of mutantkind to become polygamists or wants to see them at war with humans for the umpteenth time.
    I've never read most of Hickman's works, and so far his stuff doesn't impress me, but I get people wanting to be optimistic.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  3. #2688
    Mighty Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    I don't think anyone genuinely wants the X-Men and all of mutantkind to become polygamists or wants to see them at war with humans for the umpteenth time.
    You guess wrong!

  4. #2689
    Astonishing Member Silver Fang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    I've never read most of Hickman's works, and so far his stuff doesn't impress me, but I get people wanting to be optimistic.
    I am iffy. Hickman's ideas & writing seem decent. But in the end, he still gives bad showing to one of my favs. and has not started really working on the other one.

    He's definitely giving good attention and/ or feats to 3 of his top 5 characters. Sinister, Magneto, and Emma. Then there's Xavier & Moira. But outside of these mentioned, his character work has not impressed. But it was stated he doesn't devote much time to that, so much as plot points with characters as chess pieces.

    Even with the characters I mentioned, everything is still hollow. Emma hasn't had any depthful character showing, but she at least did have some good attitude & feats. Same for Magneto & Sinister. But the only depth we have gotten has been on Xavier & Moira.
    Last edited by Silver Fang; 09-17-2019 at 06:04 PM.

  5. #2690
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    The thing is that they don't quite care if the change is for the positive or the negative or, to be quite frank, even all that different or evocative. I maintain that there is nothing here that Hickman is doing that is entirely unique. His story reeks of elements from Morrison, Claremont, the Utopia days, etc. It's well written but I don't think anyone genuinely wants the X-Men and all of mutantkind to become polygamists or wants to see them at war with humans for the umpteenth time.
    Polygamy is a huge copout (just shakeup the ships and stop hedging like a weakling) if that is even happening, but I definitely want the humans to remain adversarial. I don't think the story is going about it quite the right way though. Mutants not being able to commit crimes is silly, as is nonchalantly making copies of people. It makes them come off as villainous, in all honesty.

  6. #2691
    Mighty Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    Mutants not being able to commit crimes is silly, as is nonchalantly making copies of people. It makes them come off as villainous, in all honesty.
    And? I like my X-Men spooky and dangerous these days. Not hiding in Limbo or begging the humans for real estate to be slaughtered on so they can play team sports and wait for the Sentinels to show up, again. If other parts of the Marvel U call them 'villains' then villains it is. Mutant and proud.

  7. #2692
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    The thing is that they don't quite care if the change is for the positive or the negative or, to be quite frank, even all that different or evocative. I maintain that there is nothing here that Hickman is doing that is entirely unique. His story reeks of elements from Morrison, Claremont, the Utopia days, etc. It's well written but I don't think anyone genuinely wants the X-Men and all of mutantkind to become polygamists or wants to see them at war with humans for the umpteenth time.
    I agree with you. I was so hyped for Hickman and there are good things on what he has done but also bad, and many things I don't care or don't like.
    Last edited by phoenixzero23; 09-17-2019 at 06:46 PM.
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  8. #2693
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    Polygamy is a huge copout (just shakeup the ships and stop hedging like a weakling) if that is even happening, but I definitely want the humans to remain adversarial. I don't think the story is going about it quite the right way though. Mutants not being able to commit crimes is silly, as is nonchalantly making copies of people. It makes them come off as villainous, in all honesty.
    I'm just sort of over the idea of the X-Men and mutants in general just automatically being at war with the humans. I'm fine with humans being opposed to mutants on a base level, but the solicits for the next few issues of HoxPox state outright that mutants are going to war with humans, again. It's that it's SO PREVALENT that bothers me. There's no reason that we need another war between humans and mutants even if there's continuing conflict, there's also no reason that the majority of the X-Men would be remotely okay with what Charles appears to be doing or leading to.

    That, on top of the fact that most of the characters that Hickman has written have felt out of character, has left me largely unimpressed.

    "I'll always love you, Jean Grey." "I'll always love you too, Scott Summers." - Scott Summers and Jean Grey

  9. #2694
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    I'm just sort of over the idea of the X-Men and mutants in general just automatically being at war with the humans. I'm fine with humans being opposed to mutants on a base level, but the solicits for the next few issues of HoxPox state outright that mutants are going to war with humans, again. It's that it's SO PREVALENT that bothers me. There's no reason that we need another war between humans and mutants even if there's continuing conflict, there's also no reason that the majority of the X-Men would be remotely okay with what Charles appears to be doing or leading to.

    That, on top of the fact that most of the characters that Hickman has written have felt out of character, has left me largely unimpressed.
    Shouldn't we wait till the whole thing is over before holding full judgement? I mean I'm not overly fond of a lot of the characterization of a lot of people (especially Jean) But I'm sure hickman knows how
    crazy the X-fanbase can get, so I'm sure we'll get some explainations by the end (there's what 3 issues left?) then we can all love or hate it and move on to this new status quo.

    If I had to rate it now? I'd probably give it a 7.5, too much stuff I don't really care about right now that will probably mean more down the line(but there's been so much bs over like the last what 10 years + I know a lot of us are ready to just have some good fun stories)


    I get the whole not wanting to see a war with the humans again, which is redundant of the last decade or so, but maybe it's got a different approach or something? Iunno, just feels too early to totally think everyones favorite is gonna suck and The X-men are fighting humans etc etc...

    I could be totally wrong and basically putting my foot in my mouth, but everything is so secretive that it's making people antsy imo.

  10. #2695
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    I'll be done with the X-Men battling against xenophobes when that stops being a real-life problem. Heaven help me if the X-Men becomes just space battles, time-travel, and villains of the week.

    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    And? I like my X-Men spooky and dangerous these days. Not hiding in Limbo or begging the humans for real estate to be slaughtered on so they can play team sports and wait for the Sentinels to show up, again. If other parts of the Marvel U call them 'villains' then villains it is. Mutant and proud.
    Reads like weak sauce edginess to me. We already did "the Revolution" with Bendis and "Xavier Institute of Canada". As I said in another thread, if the X-Men just stop caring then game over because there is no reason they shouldn't win. End of the day, it's a series about working to change hearts and minds. That's where the struggle and story lies. We know they can disregard humanity. The kick is that they don't, just on principle.
    Last edited by Kitty&Piotr<3; 09-17-2019 at 06:58 PM.

  11. #2696
    Mighty Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    Reads like weak sauce edginess to me. We already did "the Revolution" with Bendis and "Xavier Institute of Canada".
    An intermittently fun but failed run because Bendis can't plot. Not the same thing.

    End of the day, it's a series about working to change hearts and minds. That's where the struggle and story lies. We know they can disregard humanity. The kick is that they don't, just on principle.
    I've been reading that self-sacrificing POV in the books since I could read. For me, personally, I've seen every variation of the noble martyr X-Men that I care to, and in this particular day and age in America and with my own minority status, I am no longer interested in it. Especially after the misery porn the books have often wallowed in since Morrison. You can only read that so many times and pretend it has anything fresh or new to say. I'm ready for a much larger-scale different approach. Thus far, this is that for me. YMMV.

  12. #2697
    Mighty Member ohsnapulon5000's Avatar
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    I think the twins have gestalt enslaved Hollow again in their amalgam body. That's why 'Monet' is able to shift into Penance form, currently. That form enables Nicole to defend herself.
    Last edited by ohsnapulon5000; 09-18-2019 at 05:55 AM.

  13. #2698
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    An intermittently fun but failed run because Bendis can't plot. Not the same thing.



    I've been reading that self-sacrificing POV in the books since I could read. For me, personally, I've seen every variation of the noble martyr X-Men that I care to, and in this particular day and age in America and with my own minority status, I am no longer interested in it. Especially after the misery porn the books have often wallowed in since Morrison. You can only read that so many times and pretend it has anything fresh or new to say. I'm ready for a much larger-scale different approach. Thus far, this is that for me. YMMV.
    This is in the same tone as the extinction plot misery. There can be a weird mutant society without helping criminals get off just because they're mutants, threatening to steal other heroes' children, and replacing people with copies of themselves as if they are exactly the same.

    What the mutants have done to show their power with the flower medicines and their globe-spanning fortress is great. I just don't think pushing go make them villainous is a bright idea in the context of the books nor as an appealing franchise.

    I also get the base appeal of the idea of minorities going militant, but I don't think that's the way.
    Last edited by Kitty&Piotr<3; 09-17-2019 at 07:22 PM.

  14. #2699
    Mighty Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Scott made a very pointed statement to the FF, but he has not threatened to steal Franklin.

    And I don't believe whatever is happening on Krakoa with the dead is any less invalid than the many times Xavier has had a new body.

  15. #2700
    Extraordinary Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Polyamory, not polygamy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    I'll be done with the X-Men battling against xenophobes when that stops being a real-life problem. Heaven help me if the X-Men becomes just space battles, time-travel, and villains of the week.



    Reads like weak sauce edginess to me. We already did "the Revolution" with Bendis and "Xavier Institute of Canada". As I said in another thread, if the X-Men just stop caring then game over because there is no reason they shouldn't win. End of the day, it's a series about working to change hearts and minds. That's where the struggle and story lies. We know they can disregard humanity. The kick is that they don't, just on principle.
    How can y’all say Hickman’s stuff is uninspired yet turn around and say, “but umm I’d just love to read about the X-Men never going anywhere for the billionth time.” No one, especially now, wants to read about mutants trying to change minds only to get shot or blown up or hate crimed. I certainly don’t give any ishs to see that again and Rosencanny was the final nail in the coffin for all that grimdark metaphor mess. Bendis’ Revolution did nothing beyond the first arcs of Uncanny and All-New. At the end of the day, the X-Men are marginalized and eventually, those communities fight back against the injustice they’ve had heaped on them for decades. That’s the story that Hickman is telling to great success.

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