Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[Grunty]

Clan Akkaba would be better if it had more named characters and acted more as a proper faction and not just those guys who help Apocalypse.

That could be said about a lot of villain factions, especialy when they are supposed to be a larger organizations or factions.

A single team based group like the Brotherhood/Freedom Force can obviously remain at just a small number of characters, where each can get at least some focus. But the moment a writer implies or downright points out a larger organization it needs filler material beyond the leaders, regardless of how much the writer wants to only focus on them.

From right hand man, to lieutenants, to occasional named and faced henchmen. Regardless of how important or how often they are meant to appear, their existence fills out gaps in the presentation, which helps to make a group or organization actualy feel like being a large entitity and not just the people on top. with a grey mass of "meh" behind them.

It's likely the reason why groups like the Hellfire Club and the MLF managed to remain being used and even having fans appriciate their appearance, becuase they kept having new lower members, while the top remained relatively stable.

Contrast to many of the new villain groups (Orchis, Xeno, the evil rich people in Marauders, etc.) of the current status quo who often only have one or two leader characters and then just a ton of nameless identical henchmen with the identical "hates mutants" motivations.

[TheRay]

I hope we get to see adult Iceman and kid Iceman simultaneously.

[marhawkman]

That could be said about a lot of villain factions, especialy when they are supposed to be a larger organizations or factions.

A single team based group like the Brotherhood/Freedom Force can obviously remain at just a small number of characters, where each can get at least some focus. But the moment a writer implies or downright points out a larger organization it needs filler material beyond the leaders, regardless of how much the writer wants to only focus on them.

From right hand man, to lieutenants, to occasional named and faced henchmen. Regardless of how important or how often they are meant to appear, their existence fills out gaps in the presentation, which helps to make a group or organization actualy feel like being a large entitity and not just the people on top. with a grey mass of "meh" behind them.

It's likely the reason why groups like the Hellfire Club and the MLF managed to remain being used and even having fans appriciate their appearance, becuase they kept having new lower members, while the top remained relatively stable.

Contrast to many of the new villain groups (Orchis, Xeno, the evil rich people in Marauders, etc.) of the current status quo who often only have one or two leader characters and then just a ton of nameless identical henchmen with the identical "hates mutants" motivations.

In the case of Clan Akkaba I think the issue was simply not re-using characters. We have one main member and anyone else is a mook... possibly a named mook, but still a mook who gets used once... and usually killed off.

Like these guys:

Most of them got killed by Dracula and his vampires.

[Ambaryerno]

The biggest problem to me with the comics medium is how much development happens off-panel. This is a big part of where the 'this/these characters are acting OOC' complaints stem from this problem. It's not limited to the X-Men or to Marvel. DC has the same problem. To some extent it's a result of the brevity of comics. But other times it's just that something important happened off panel and now the character is in a different place than they were the last time we saw them. For instance, the captains. Most fans would love to see why everyone not named Cyclops was made a captain, what the process was like. We want to see how Gorgon went from Hydra to running security for the Quiet Council. We want to see why Bishop was selected to replace Cyclops and why Kwanon was selected to replace Gorgon. But these developments happen off-panel, and are presented as a fait accompli instead of being given the space they should have.

This seems to be a much more recent phenomenon, as comics have become increasingly driven by the yearly big event series, which end up disrupting existing plots and forcibly resetting the status quo.

[sunofdarkchild]

This seems to be a much more recent phenomenon, as comics have become increasingly driven by the yearly big event series, which end up disrupting existing plots and forcibly resetting the status quo.

I wouldn't call it recent at all. I first picked up on the phenomenon by reading comics that are now about 25 years old. Specifically the Chuck Dixon Robin series. An important plot point is that Stephanie Brown's mother is a drug addict. In all of her early appearances this is beaten over the reader's head. Then, when Steph gets promoted from supporting character to co-lead she just announces that her mother has gotten over her drug addiction, completely off-panel. After that I started seeing it all over the place. In X-Infernus, Colossus is suddenly obsessed with getting back to Limbo to find his sister, which is totally in character for him, except he hadn't said a word on panel about it for the previous year. We're supposed to accept that he'd been badgering Scott for months, just off-panel, and only now is his frustration reaching the point where he'll break Scoot's furniture, and not that he forgot about his sister for a year and just now remembered that she's in Limbo. This is unfortunately the way comics have been for a long while.

[Rev9]

The way i always understood this thread, perhaps a bit overly idealisticly, is that because everyone has some opinion about the X-comics past or present which will be unpopular with somebody else (since we are all human beings who have different viewpoints based social, religious, ethnic and cultural backrounds, aswell personal history), that this is where people can carefully express these opinion and either engange in debate about it, leave them as it, or discuss them with likely minded. As long as nobody is a jerk.



While the school is indeed a fundamental part of their pop culture image, i would argue it always worked best when it was limited to a singular junior team, like the 05, New Mutants, Generation X and how X-men Evolution did it.
Though a singular class might still work too.

If we look at the last 20 years, a larger student body has come with several issues that have not been there as much before. To name a few.

1. It ties the heros down via having an additional responcibility that will always interfer with their main job as super heros.
2. It paints a massive bullseye on any of their backround student and their deaths will be the heros direct responcibility.
3. If the same backround characters beginn to appear frequently or even interact with the heros multiple times, it will often cause the readers to want to know more about them and new writers might want to expand upon them. Resulting in an increasingly bloated list of constantly present characters.

While it's always nice that there is a chance for bit or backround characters to be expanded into supporting or even main characters, in the long run it bloats the junior cast, creates indirect competition for pannel space and just decreases everyone's elses time to be developed or used. Ultimately frustrating those readers who have grown attached to these new characters during their brief pushes.

And there are likely more problems.

Meanwhile a small scale junior team not only decrease the number of wards the X-men need to take care of, freeing them up for their super heroics while still having teacher roles, but also allows each of them to have more development, than if writers constantly switch out their focus characters.

Even a singular class still has a much better chance of getting development, with designated main group and the rest as supporting characters, than a full blown school that is maintained by a small group of super heros with "day jobs".



The X-men running a nation as government and governmental institutions, means that any of the usual problems with such organizations in stories are now the directly fault of the heros themself, which makes them look increasingly incapable to downright incompetent.

They can no longer blame an unseen president or his cabinete for making stupid decessions for the nation or being involved in moraly questionable if not evil acts, because the head of states are mostly THEM. They can no longer blame governmental institutions for attacks on the homeland, faulty intel, crimes or child neglect and bad education because they fill these roles now. They can no longer blame a obviously shady mega corperation for something because it's THEIR shady mega corperation now.

It's like having a Star Trek show where every main character of the past was promoted to be the admirals of Star Fleet and all the usualy mistakes or interferences these types tend to make are now the fault of the once beloved heros.

Which is especialy damning because the whole point of super heros is that they can do what real life people and institutions can't. But instead we now see them causing the very problems that super heros are meant to resolve for the incompetent, underpowered or moraly questionable organization. Even though the X-men resolve these things themself, it's now their fault they happend in first place, rather than some outsider's.

And on top of all this, it's not clear with several of the current writers if this is supposed to be fine or if they actualy want to set up a failing moraly bankrupt nation, both which just damages the image of these heros.

Also by having everyone tied up in the same place and pulling on one string, it also means there is no escape from this status quo in case someone wants a different direction, tone or motivation for their X-team.

With this status quo holding all potential titles hostage, i feel that it harms the diversity of X-men titles and their themes. Everything is currently just a shade of "krakoa" one way or another.

Also with the heros now basicly having any super power the plot demands at their finger tips via every mutant sitting around their island, holding hands and singing how great they are, it either destroys and kind of tension or makes them even more incompetent looking by not making use of their "resolve anything" powers.

Can't disagree with the cringe worthy double standard.Since Krakoa is now a powerful government, we've not had any internal criticism on the plantinel ,cancerous Krakoa fiasco, Onslaught infecting the mind repository, or even the baby nursery being robbed! Not to mention atrocious security breaches, The bigger problem for me is Krakoa leadership's hypocrisy ,trying to go after humanity before they become homo novissima ,while Sinister an actual homo novissima among them(who has been betraying them all this time ) is sipping tea while nodding to their every pontification.Emma is keeping pretense with regard to his behaviour as well as keeping a lid on Shaw killing Kate but is furious for Xavier not keeping her in the loop about Moira? The whole set up is ridiculous. I actually think it would be better for Exodus to leave Krakoa(due to perhaps being indignant at some betrayal or if protocols are abandoned..to take up resurrections through his own power a la WSword with a few mutants who choose to follow him) and be an objective counterpoint to Krakoa,having been part of it(since humanity's criticism is never going to make an impression). Otherwise the writers have confined themselves into a very rigid and insular frame of referance

[Outburstz]

i really don't know how many times I have to destroy the sinister gripe.

They......need.....him.....no Sinister ....no resurrections. Anything less than a council seat would just make Sinister bolt.

Not to mention this is a clone Sinister that was created with mutant dna from the start. He is no different from any other clone on the island

[Grunty]

In the case of Clan Akkaba I think the issue was simply not re-using characters. We have one main member and anyone else is a mook... possibly a named mook, but still a mook who gets used once... and usually killed off.

Yeah that of course kills the chance to build up a stable "core" of members and with that any relevance in being remembered by readers for anything beyond being a throw away backstory filler.

Like these guys: *pic* Most of them got killed by Dracula and his vampires.

It's funny that the character with the least ability to act or do anything from that group is the one with the biggest plot shield, because he is meant to be Blink's ancestor.

Side note. That's one of the few Apocalypse designs i think actualy look good. Because he doesn't look like a complete body builder clown.

[TheRay]

I don't think I'd be at all interested in a story where somebody other than Professor X founds the team.

[Habis]

I personally think the writers need to find a better niche than "hated minority" for the X-Men to live in in their fictional world.

But they have doubled down on it, instead. Now every bad thing that happened to mutants was done by humans... Genosha's genocide? It wasn't Charles Xavier's sister Cassandra Nova, it was humans. Legacy Virus? It wasn't Dyscordia, it was humans. Decimation? It wasn't a High Evolutionary's construct traumatized by Magneto, it was humans. Morlock Massacre? It wasn't Mr. Sinister, it was humans. The Terrigen Pox? It wasn't Blackbolt, it was humans. Asteroid M's destruction? It wasn't Fabian Cortez, it was humans....etc.

I know they do it because otherwise the X-Men would look like outright villains during the Krakoan storyline... They need mutants to blame humans for every bad thing that happened to them so Magneto can proclaim himself a god to humans, Emma can manipulate the minds of the UN assembly, Xavier can manipulate Reed Richards' brain, so Apocalypse and Mr. Sinister and Exodus and Selene can live in Krakoa...etc., without the X-Men looking like villains.

The problem is, for those of us who remember the old stories, that makes the X-Men look even more like an indoctrinated cult.

On the other hand, you have Sue Storm and Ben Grimm and Steve Rogers and Tony Stark being all friendly with the X-Men despite knowing that Apocalypse and Exodus and Magneto are there... Taking into account their past, they should be foaming at the mouth at the mere mention of Krakoa... It's as if only humans had ever done anything bad to mutants, and never the opposite...

[Outburstz]

But they have doubled down on it, instead. Now every bad thing that happened to mutants was done by humans... Genosha's genocide? It wasn't Charles Xavier's sister Cassandra Nova, it was humans. Legacy Virus? It wasn't Dyscordia, it was humans. Decimation? It wasn't a High Evolutionary's construct traumatized by Magneto, it was humans. Morlock Massacre? It wasn't Mr. Sinister, it was humans. The Terrigen Pox? It wasn't Blackbolt, it was humans. Asteroid M's destruction? It wasn't Fabian Cortez, it was humans....etc.

I know they do it because otherwise the X-Men would look like outright villains during the Krakoan storyline... They need mutants to blame humans for every bad thing that happened to them so Magneto can proclaim himself a god to humans, Emma can manipulate the minds of the UN assembly, Xavier can manipulate Reed Richards' brain, so Apocalypse and Mr. Sinister and Exodus and Selene can live in Krakoa...etc., without the X-Men looking like villains.

The problem is, for those of us who remember the old stories, that makes the X-Men look even more like an indoctrinated cult.

On the other hand, you have Sue Storm and Ben Grimm and Steve Rogers and Tony Stark being all friendly with the X-Men despite knowing that Apocalypse and Exodus and Magneto are there... Taking into account their past, they should be foaming at the mouth at the mere mention of Krakoa... It's as if only humans had ever done anything bad to mutants, and never the opposite...

Human society has been the main cause of most of the mutants problems. Most of the evil mutants that exist are there to destroy humans because of their treatment of mutants in one form or another and the X-men for the longest time have tried to stop them putting themselves at risk in the process only for humans to keep hating them.

So yeah it makes sense that they say screw it we are going to worry about ourselves and with them united and prospering there is no need to fight among each other.

You picking out a hand full of heroes that were "nice" doesn't make up for the planet overwhelmingly hating mutants

[Bunch of Coconuts]

i really don't know how many times I have to destroy the sinister gripe.

They......need.....him.....no Sinister ....no resurrections. Anything less than a council seat would just make Sinister bolt.

Not to mention this is a clone Sinister that was created with mutant dna from the start. He is no different from any other clone on the island

Sinister stealing mutant identity from a Native American-mutant is bad optics. But I really don't know how many times I have to repeat that.

[Rev9]

i really don't know how many times I have to destroy the sinister gripe.

They......need.....him.....no Sinister ....no resurrections. Anything less than a council seat would just make Sinister bolt.

Not to mention this is a clone Sinister that was created with mutant dna from the start. He is no different from any other clone on the island

It is written that way to make Sinister relevant, with Dr Nemesis on there,Beast .Sinister is surplus to requirements.On the cloning, yes he is a clone but the finer point is Sinister was never a mutant, he made himself one through splicing mutant DNA into his own.He has always attempted to transcend mere mortal identity through eugenics and all sorts of technologically assisted enhancements the very definition of HN or 'transhumanism'

[Bunch of Coconuts]

It is written that way to make Sinister relevant, with Dr Nemesis on there,Beast .Sinister is surplus to requirements.On the cloning, yes he is a clone but the finer point is Sinister was never a mutant, he made himself one through splicing mutant DNA into his own.He has always attempted to transcend mere mortal identity through eugenics and all sorts of technologically assisted enhancements the very definition of HN or 'transhumanism'

The only reason Xavier/Magneto went to Sinister is because of the time and place that Sinister was available, and because they knew Sinister was capable (read: evil enough) to get the job done of collecting mutant DNA samples. This man did not ask every individual mutant for a sample.

If, somehow, Sinister and his clones were to be completely eradicated, does that...magically destroy all the DNA samples? Do they still need him?

[Rev9]

The only reason Xavier/Magneto went to Sinister is because of the time and place that Sinister was available, and because they knew Sinister was capable (read: evil enough) to get the job done of collecting mutant DNA samples. This man did not ask every individual mutant for a sample.

If, somehow, Sinister and his clones were to be completely eradicated, does that...magically destroy all the DNA samples? Do they still need him?

They don't obviously.As I said the need is 'baked into the cake' .with the intellect of Dr.Nemesis and Beast they could have started with some hidden cache of DNA samples collected from the 200 mutant survivors post M-day, or say Beast kept a school 'gene bank', and progress from there that being on Krakoa requires submitting blood samples. There are ways to make this work without Sinister.I don't even really care about Sinister..he is a villain and a classic one, but him being outside Krakoa only raises the stakes because with humans subjecting themselves to his research to gain parity with mutants is a treasure trove of story potential.Instead you have the unsavoury optics of mutants working with a HN while wagging fingers at humanity for putting mutants in peril by doing so.