Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[Doom'nGloom]

Humans are inferior to mutants, though.

In which way, though? If you compare Storm with an average human in terms of physical attributes/things she can do then sure but not every mutant is Storm or Jean or Bobby or Mags. It's always funny to me in terms of intelligence the biggest brains in marvel are usually human. Marvel often says if nature is left to run its course mutants will be the dominant species but that's not much different than saying humanity should have died out in its earliest days because they are not as strong/fast/agile/durable as some animals in the wild (I'm not making a comparison between mutants and animals, I'm simply saying that statement doesn't hold much weight in reality). Humanity's defining attribute is how they bend nature for their own gain with science and technology. If mutants are to claim superiority (some do) it should be done through technological advancements, not how powerful some mutants are compared to humans. Now if x-gene made mutants a more intelligent life form on average, I'd agree.

[Habis]

In which way, though? If you compare Storm with an average human in terms of physical attributes/things she can do then sure but not every mutant is Storm or Jean or Bobby or Mags. It's always funny to me in terms of intelligence the biggest brains in marvel are usually human. Marvel often says if nature is left to run its course mutants will be the dominant species but that's not much different than saying humanity should have died out in its earliest days because they are not as strong/fast/agile/durable as some animals in the wild (I'm not making a comparison between mutants and animals, I'm simply saying that statement doesn't hold much weight in reality). Humanity's defining attribute is how they bend nature for their own gain with science and technology. If mutants are to claim superiority (some do) it should be done through technological advancements, not how powerful some mutants are compared to humans. Now if x-gene made mutants a more intelligent life form on average, I'd agree.

Actually, that's a central point in House of X/Power of X... human brains vs mutant powers, and humans always win...

And honestly, if I had to pick one, I would choose brains-based evolution... Any human can get Sundown's awesome power set (a combination of Hercules's, Captain Marvel's, Dazzler's, Blackout's, Deadpool's, Nightcrawler's, and Giant Man's power sets, basically) just getting a shot, or become immortal by drinking one of Diablo's potions, or learn magic like Dr. Strange... I would take it any day over rolling the mutant power lottery and risk becoming Beak or Snot...

[Agent Z]

When people point out that Omega level planet destroyers are rare among Mutants (which the book has yet to prove), I have to ask myself just what is it that makes mutants superior to humans?

[Frobisher]

When people point out that Omega level planet destroyers are rare among Mutants (which the book has yet to prove), I have to ask myself just what is it that makes mutants superior to humans?

Mutants have ten-pack stomachs.

[Doom'nGloom]

Mutants have ten-pack stomachs.

Only when drawn by Liefeld.

[Zelena]

And that's exactly what a XIX century European would have said about Africans... "Look, we made steam engines, telegraphs, telescopes, public lighting, chemistry...etc. It is obvious that we are the superior race!" And they would have shown you a bunch of engravings to "prove" that European brains are biologically superior to other race's brains...

As I said, the whole concept of a race wanting to rule/inherit the world because they believe they are biologically superior is distasteful... It's too similar to what happened during the uglier periods of our history...

And it feels really weird when the writers are simultaneously trying to look progressive by making a lot of parallels to real world discriminated minorities while pushing a narrative of "the natural right of the superior race to inherit Earth". It's as if somebody tried to mash together Martin Luther King's "Where Do We Go from Here: Chaos or Community?" and Adolf Hitler "Mein Kampf" into a single book...

Actually, there is no contradiction in saying “I am not worth less than the humans, actually I am worth more”. It was Magneto’s position during a long time. But the X-men were his opponents… during a long time, too.

And it is the reason why I don’t like Hickman’s run. As I don’t think he’s pushing a racist agenda, I criticize him to wield ideologies without understanding (or maybe not caring) where it leads. But my biggest gripe is him using characters (the X-men) that have been shaped by a true humanist, Claremont, whose ideology, beliefs were clearly “whatever the person you are, member of a majority or a minority, you have exactly the same value as everyone else, and so, the exact same right to live”. The X-men were his “champions”, he represented him.

[Grunty]

Actually, there is no contradiction in saying “I am not worth less than the humans, actually I am worth more”. It was Magneto’s position during a long time. But the X-men were his opponents… during a long time, too.

And it is the reason why I don’t like Hickman’s run. As I don’t think he’s pushing a racist agenda, I criticize him to wield ideologies without understanding (or maybe not caring) where it leads. But my biggest gripe is him using characters (the X-men) that have been shaped by a true humanist, Claremont, whose ideology, beliefs were clearly “whatever the person you are, member of a majority or a minority, you have exactly the same value as everyone else, and so, the exact same right to live”. The X-men were his “champions”, he represented him.

The interesting thing to consider is that the usualy wording of the extremist pro- and anti-mutant rethoric often revolves around the idea of mutants being a seperate "species" from humans, similar to Neanderthal having been on a different evolutionary "line" from homo sapiens sapiens allready (or even going further than that).

Hence the constant "humans vs mutants" arguments and the great proclamation that mutants are going to "replace" humans.

However if we look at the way mutants come to be and who they can reproduce with, it's evident that the seperation between normal humans and mutants is so damn flimsy that it doesn't make sense to really speak of a "species" of mutants.

For example there are no hybrids as the result of human/mutant combination. It's always all or nothing, either they are normal humans or powered humans (mutants) and both outcomes (unless the super powers make reproduction impossible) are capable of further reproduction with unpowered humans or with mutants.
Even mutant/mutant pairings have been revealed to have the chance to produce unpowered humans again.
The only hybrids involving mutants are those who come to be when mutants have offsprings with officialy different humanoid species as seen in Namor the Submariner who is half human mutant and half atlantean or Xandra who is half human mutant and half Shi'ar.

That being said, even the idea of using real world biological knowledge and terminology to explain the seperation of mutants and humans is highly dubious since it's based around super powers which don't and can't exist in the real world.

Also the X-gene is only one of several ways for humans to gain super powers in the marvel universe, with the other empowered humans often having the quality to produce offsprings aswell who share their powers, yet nobody seems to bother declaring them a fully seperated species from the rest of humanity all the time.
Infact many mutant have been written as just throwing the other empowered humans into being part of humanity, while considering themself seperated, which should be pointed out as contradiction.

So what does that mean for the whole mutant vs human rethoric and argument?

As far as i am concerned it's a fallacy and i think writers should stay far away from pushing it to the forfront without having it questioned in universe (or worse thinking it's what the heros themself should proclaim), because by all evidence mutants are still fundamentaly human in everything but having natural super powers.

What is actualy going on or at least could happen is, that mutants might eventualy be the new "normality" or "standard" of what humans are.

But i guess "destined to become the future normal of humanity" doesn't sound as snappy or fear inducing as "replace humanity thanks to being a superior species"?

[Rev9]

So I've been re-reading Morrison's New X-men (again), and if you've read any of my posts you know I adore that run however I think I now understand why fans of the X-men hated his direction. There's this innate cynicism connected to how he viewed the X-men, he deconstructed most of the themes and stories without the thought to put them back correctly, and honestly I don't think he really liked any of the characters.

Sure he touches on all of the biggest highlights of the X-men history but how he used the characters were wildly out of character, no one outside of his main cast kept or displayed a real personality opposed to how he thought they should engage. And I think he did a disservice to a large portion of the characters he used, I'm thinking specifically back to X-corps members that appeared in his run and were casually killed by Weapon XV. I still think he's one of Jean's best writers, however almost everyone else he touched were misused, imo!







Honestly, in this era Selene has been one of the most misused and incredibly forgotten which sucks to me. Especially with how much attention Hickman gave Apocalypse, I wish I could be upset but unfortunately women especially X-women hardly ever receive so much attention and direction from the narrative. It's such a missed opportunity to have the first mutant reflect and interact with the founding of this new mutant nation...and nothing.

I haven't check her out in X-corps as that title and mission statement doesn't excite me at all, and I don't feel like it is remotely the correct title for Selene.

I keep hoping Selene will come into play later, she could technically know things about Okkara(Now Krakoa/Arrako) that not even Apocalypse knew since she even predates the Arraki..I do agree she is atrociously misused, but here's to hope that writers wake up.

[Gnostic]

Not sure if movies count but…I feel that the fan backlash towards the Dark Phoenix movie was/is an overreaction because it is based on the misconception that it is rendition of the entire Dark Phoenix Saga. When it was really designed to be Phoenix origin story with elements of the Hellfire Club arc from the saga. I mean, the people who worked on the movie said this long before it came out in interviews.

Even in the behind the scenes they say that Jean doesn’t become the Phoenix/Dark Phoenix until at the very end of the film as her arc. So the complaints that they were rushing to make her into the Dark Phoenix is neither fair or accurate. It reminds me of how people didn’t realize that Starship Troopers was a satire when it released.

I will die on this hill.

[Noek]

Humans are inferior to mutants, though.

Depends on the area, if the question is numbers of them on earth then no.

[Grunty]

Krakoa needed more time in the oven.

By which I mean, the country itself needed more structure and clear design than what it has. Outside of places like SWORD and to a much lesser extent Marauders... for a nation it feels completely slap dash.

And some books take advantage of that to give a critique of that messy structure like Hellions and New Mutants, but most of the time it just feels like the books are telling you "don't think about it."

I mentioned it before elswhere, but i think Krakoa should have never been build by the X-men or with the X-men in central positions.

Super heros never work well when being directly tied to governments, regardless of how positive a writer wants it to be seen. Even Captain America has constantly been written as being openly critical of the government who's nation he represents.
Compared to that the X-men's almost entirely unquestioning loyality and lack of proper criticism towards Krakoa, makes it look like they aren't themself anymore for many reader (to the point some still suspect mind control).

It also now makes them directly responcible for all the issues with the nation, it's government and the questionable morality displayed all around, rather than remaining the super heros who step in to fix things for a government.

Finaly with the heros being locked down as having to work for the nation all the time, the issues with the nation being so badly designed and having far too many holes in it's construction become much more apparent, than if writers could bit by bit flesh it out over interactions.

[marhawkman]

I mentioned it before elswhere, but i think Krakoa should have never been build by the X-men or with the X-men in central positions.

Super heros never work well when being directly tied to governments, regardless of how positive a writer wants it to be seen. Even Captain America has constantly been written as being openly critical of the government who's nation he represents.
Compared to that the X-men's almost entirely unquestioning loyality and lack of proper criticism towards Krakoa, makes it look like they aren't themself anymore for many reader (to the point some still suspect mind control).

It also now makes them directly responcible for all the issues with the nation, it's government and the questionable morality displayed all around, rather than remaining the super heros who step in to fix things for a government.

Finaly with the heros being locked down as having to work for the nation all the time, the issues with the nation being so badly designed and having far too many holes in it's construction become much more apparent, than if writers could bit by bit flesh it out over interactions.

Yeah, and having people like Apocalypse and Slene as part of that government? um....... Pretty sure the UN has... legit reasons to want to see Apocalypse and Selene imprisoned or dead.

[Frobisher]

Depends on the area, if the question is numbers of them on earth then no.

Do you consider a higher population to be superior?

[AdamFTF]

Not sure if this is controversial or anything but, I've been reading old stuff from the '80s and '90s (not just X-Men stuff, lots of mainstream superhero stuff) and . . . I miss the soap opera style of writing comics. I know there are reasons why they went from long runs with storytelling reminiscent of a romantic melodrama to shorter runs driven by big stories, events and status quo shifts. But I still miss it. Same with narration captions, actually (at least when done well).

[Saithor]

Well I’m a fan of the mutant metaphor, whatever genius had the idea that having them go around talking about racial superiority, no matter how well it fits in the comics, in this day and age, really should take a second and rethink the entire endeavour. Although honestly I blame Morrison since they started the “Eventually all humans will be replaced by mutants” iirc.

Devolopment of Krakoa is always going to be lackluster because these are comics, even existing marvel fictional nations like Latervia and Wakanda have decades of stories of build-up to back them up. Krakoa needs more time as well, and some books like Way of X have at least made steps in that direction, but I think genre constraints will always limit that.