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  1. #2566
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Morrison writes the best Jean, who is the heart and soul of the X-Men and at her most powerful while still having a dark edge. The original DPS, before the BS retcons, was about her repressed dark side coming to the surface, so she was never 100% a saint. Her marriage going through a rough patch, in which her husband is written as the more unsympathetic one, does not equate to a writer disliking her. Quit putting her on a pedestal, because she's so much more awesome when she isn't and is allowed to just be her.
    Once again for the people in the cheap seats.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Morrison writes the best Jean, who is the heart and soul of the X-Men and at her most powerful while still having a dark edge. The original DPS, before the BS retcons, was about her repressed dark side coming to the surface, so she was never 100% a saint. Her marriage going through a rough patch, in which her husband is written as the more unsympathetic one, does not equate to a writer disliking her. Quit putting her on a pedestal, because she's so much more awesome when she isn't and is allowed to just be her.
    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Planet X Magneto is fine because it isn't really him, it's Sublime influencing him. It is spelled out in the book. The Xorn retcons were dumb as hell.
    And it's STILL mind boggling to me that they chose to create the Rube Goldberg retcon with Xorn than just have his resurrected via nano-Sentinels reattaching his head to his body. I don't care to get into the details of brain death and decomposition, cause this is comics.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Cassandra Nova was the last good new X-Villain and it's been nothing but duds ever since.
    Mmmm, I liked most of the latter NXM villains, but you have a point. It's probably why so many X-events have been internal strife or possession stories.

  2. #2567
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark-Jacket View Post
    Those are not really unpopular opinions.
    Borderline, Morrison's take on Jean I could disagree, but I didn't enjoy Morrison's run as a whole so...
    They seem to be around here, though I don't visit these boards that often.

    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    How is it the X-men's fault that Scott married Madelyn? He is a grown ass man who decided of his own free will to marry her. He was not pressured, manipulated or forced to do it and it was something he clearly wanted to do, Scott's choices are his own. Can the man never take responsibility for his own actions, must it always be someone else to take the blame when he screws up? The X-men are absolved from any blame for Scott's marriage to Maddie, and they most certainly are not jerks for "letting" him do it. That was all on him, the X-men have their own lives to live, it's not their job to watch or manage Scott's decisions. And it's not their fault for his actions, it's all on him.
    If I notice a close friend of mine, one who is practically family, rushing into a marriage (a serious commitment) with a woman he barely knows who looks exactly like his dead fiance that died in front of him and induced serious mental trauma not a year previous, I'd be concerned for his mental health and question the wisdom of the decision. At the very least I would talk to him to make my concerns known, for both his sake and hers, even if the decision is ultimately his. None of the X-Men should be surprised it didn't turn out that well, even if they can justifiably be angry at Scott for seemingly abandoning Maddie. Like how did Hank, who'd been away from the group for so long, not arrive at that wedding and instantly go "um, what the fuck?"

    Then again this is the same crowd that had no problem with Kurt banging his (adopted) sister, and Peter Rasputin dating a 13-14 year old, so maybe this should come as no surprise.

    Quote Originally Posted by PrezValentine View Post
    Firing truths like a damn machine gun. Hickman bless you.
    Hickman bless you as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    And it's STILL mind boggling to me that they chose to create the Rube Goldberg retcon with Xorn than just have his resurrected via nano-Sentinels reattaching his head to his body. I don't care to get into the details of brain death and decomposition, cause this is comics.


    Mmmm, I liked most of the latter NXM villains, but you have a point. It's probably why so many X-events have been internal strife or possession stories.
    Or just use magic to bring him back to life, and say he was purged of Sublime's influence. That's all it would take, I think saying it was never Magneto and creating the complicated Xorneto situation is just dumb.

  3. #2568
    Incredible Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    Once again for the people in the cheap seats.





    And it's STILL mind boggling to me that they chose to create the Rube Goldberg retcon with Xorn than just have his resurrected via nano-Sentinels reattaching his head to his body. I don't care to get into the details of brain death and decomposition, cause this is comics.



    Mmmm, I liked most of the latter NXM villains, but you have a point. It's probably why so many X-events have been internal strife or possession stories.
    So much "Yes" for your post and SiegePerilous02. Agree on every level.

    I think some X-men runs are so great (Classic if you will) that they should never be retconned or messed with. Claremont's classic run (Phoenix, Dark Phoenix) and Morrison's run should never be messed with. It can be added to but they should never retcon and take away from the stories.

    Morrison to me will always be the standard when it comes to judging other X-men stories, past and present. I am hopeful I will view Hickman's run in a similar light.
    Last edited by MechaJeanix; 09-14-2019 at 07:39 AM.

  4. #2569
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MechaJeanix View Post
    So much "Yes" for your post and SiegePerilous02. Agree on every level.

    I think some X-men runs are so great (Classic if you will) that they should never be retconned or messed with. Claremont's classic run (Phoenix, Dark Phoenix) and Morrison's run should never be messed with. It can be added to but they should never retcon and take away from the stories.

    Morrison to me will always be the standard when it comes to judging other X-men stories, past and present. I am hopeful I will view Hickman's run in a similar light.
    Claremont's original run, warts and all (and there are a lot of warts and weirdness) is this for me. And I'd include the original run of New Mutants in that as well. But Morrison's has become a very close second. Helps that it is largely self contained and not bogged down by convoluted franchising.

    Before browsing these boards, i thought it was a given that Jean was awesome in NXM. She became one of my favorite X-Men because of it. Yeah Scott cheated on her and Morrison said he identified with Scott during a break up with his ex-girlfriend or whatever, but Morrison also wrote Logan into the script to call Scott out for whining and not giving Jean a chance to understand and that he should be grateful for what he has with her. Emma calls out Jean for having a dark side, but it's also EMMA doing that and she's not an un-biased source. And Jean having a dark side and flaws should come as no surprise to people. Phoenix was not originally anything other than Jean, and the story was better because of it.

  5. #2570
    Spectacular Member Dark-Jacket's Avatar
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    The Wein/Claremont stays a canon to me. The Neal adams end of the first run could too. But, I still think to this day Madelyn was a huge mistake because she looked so much like Jean.
    Morrison's run is a stapple on not what to do for me. xD
    But I totally accept his run is awesome for many readers, including younger readers who don't except reading the same things as I do.

    This being said. I'm also against erasing continuity or stuff we didn't like in comics. Like in impro, you can't just say' nay it didn't happen.

  6. #2571
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    Emma took advantage of Scott when he was suffering from PTSD and if the comics either knew or cared about the implications of this she'd be called out on her violation psychiatrist ethics (not simply the fact she was sleeping with a married guy).

  7. #2572
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    having Jean being humiliated and then fridge sure doesn't mean that Morrison didn't like Jean LOL
    yeah sure.

    I think Morrison wrote a OK Jean, she lacked more nuance and good moments. She was far away from being a breakout of the run. Both simonson and Claremont did much better, Taylor also did a better job
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  8. #2573
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    You can like a character and write bad things happening to them.

  9. #2574
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    You can like a character and write bad things happening to them.
    Sure, but usually when it happens the character get out much stronger than before. That iis not what happens to Jean
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  10. #2575
    Spectacular Member Dark-Jacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    having Jean being humiliated and then fridge sure doesn't mean that Morrison didn't like Jean LOL
    yeah sure.

    I think Morrison wrote a OK Jean, she lacked more nuance and good moments. She was far away from being a breakout of the run. Both simonson and Claremont did much better, Taylor also did a better job
    Morrison wrote OK x-men. Only Emma and Cassandra Nova were well written.

  11. #2576
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    having Jean being humiliated and then fridge sure doesn't mean that Morrison didn't like Jean LOL
    yeah sure.

    I think Morrison wrote a OK Jean, she lacked more nuance and good moments. She was far away from being a breakout of the run. Both simonson and Claremont did much better, Taylor also did a better job
    "Fridging" verb: When a character is killed solely for the purpose of bringing emotional pain to another character and give them motivation.

    Please explain how Jean's death was anywhere CLOSE to that.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  12. #2577
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    "Fridging" verb: When a character is killed solely for the purpose of bringing emotional pain to another character and give them motivation.

    Please explain how Jean's death was anywhere CLOSE to that.
    it brought emotional pain to Scott
    Zethrimon unblock me

  13. #2578
    Extraordinary Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    it brought emotional pain to Scott
    It brought emotional pain to anyone who called themself an “X-Man”

  14. #2579
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    It brought emotional pain to anyone who called themself an “X-Man”
    it still isn't less fridging
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  15. #2580
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    it still isn't less fridging
    So Xorn killed Jean solely to hurt Scott?

    If that isn't the case, IT ISN'T FRIDGING.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

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