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  1. #2641
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    The majority of the anger lies against Morrison for Jean's death. But last I checked, Morrison didn't run all of Marvel comics. Editorial could have brought her back at any time. They chose not to. That's on them.
    Yep. He killed Damian Wayne, and DC backtracked almost immediately. Marvel could have done the same.

  2. #2642
    Mighty Member powerpax's Avatar
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    I've never even seen a source for this claim that icing Jean was an editorial mandate tbh, though I could believe it.

  3. #2643
    Sad & Brazilian PrezValentine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    I've never even seen a source for this claim that icing Jean was an editorial mandate tbh, though I could believe it.
    Killing her is on Morrison. Leaving her dead is on Quesada.
    Hunting's no fun when your prey doesn't move.

  4. #2644
    Mighty Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Yep. He killed Damian Wayne, and DC backtracked almost immediately. Marvel could have done the same.
    But Morrison also left a backdoor to resurrect Damian at the end of his run, which I'd fully expected him to do. (Other than that, IIRC his Batman run ends surprisingly nihilistically for Morrison, possibly due to his frustration with DC in general at the time.)

  5. #2645
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    I've never even seen a source for this claim that icing Jean was an editorial mandate tbh, though I could believe it.
    There's evidence that Joe Quesada did it out of a personal issue, plus his ongoing issues with the institution of marriage.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  6. #2646
    Mighty Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrezValentine View Post
    Killing her is on Morrison. Leaving her dead is on Quesada.
    And I'm glad they both did it. She needed the break. They'd taken the character as far as she could go at the time AFAIC.

  7. #2647
    Mighty Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    There's evidence that Joe Quesada did it out of a personal issue.
    What evidence?

  8. #2648
    Sad & Brazilian PrezValentine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    But Morrison also left a backdoor to resurrect Damian at the end of his run, which I'd fully expected him to do. (Other than that, IIRC his Batman run ends surprisingly nihilistically for Morrison, possibly due to his frustration with DC in general at the time.)
    He also did it for Jean. Could just have the Phoenix Egg spawn again and someone speed up the hatching process like Sublime Beast did. And then she'd remember who she is due to the power of friendship, after rampaging or whatever.
    Hunting's no fun when your prey doesn't move.

  9. #2649
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    What evidence?
    He was going through a divorce at the time, and soon after killed three prolific marriages, claiming the men were better off (Pym/Van Dyne, Parker/Watson, Summers/Grey).
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  10. #2650
    Mighty Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    He was going through a divorce at the time, and soon after killed three prolific marriages, claiming the men were better off (Pym/Van Dyne, Parker/Watson, Summers/Grey).
    That goes to your second statement, not your first. That's background you find suspicious, that's not clear evidence that Quesada specifically mandated killing Jean. Killing Jean was Morrison's choice (and IMO fit very well with the arc of her character through his run - she was ascending to godhood again steadily for three years, leaving her human life behind). "Dead is dead" was a larger editorial mandate at the time. They happened to coincide. If someone can point me to information indicating Quesada specifically asked for Jean to be killed at the end of Morrison's run or "Planet X" I am all ears. Otherwise, this is how apocrypha happens and becomes 'fact'.

    (Also, Jan and Hank have been off and on for decades)
    Last edited by powerpax; 09-14-2019 at 06:56 PM.

  11. #2651
    Mighty Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrezValentine View Post
    He also did it for Jean. Could just have the Phoenix Egg spawn again and someone speed up the hatching process like Sublime Beast did. And then she'd remember who she is due to the power of friendship, after rampaging or whatever.
    True, but that goes without saying for me in Jean's case. Jean has always died and come back. We all knew she would again someday.

  12. #2652
    Sad & Brazilian PrezValentine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    True, but that goes without saying for me in Jean's case. Jean has always died and come back. We all knew she would again someday.
    I feel like the Phoenix Egg is the best one created and it's the reason Rosenberg used it on Phoenix Resurrection. It wasn't precisely the same thing, but the idea of the Phoenix incubating Jean to accept it was an interesting concept. It's a spin on their relationship and not very convoluted.
    Hunting's no fun when your prey doesn't move.

  13. #2653
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    The only known case where a real-life divorce was relevant to the end of a comic book marriage was PAD killing off Betty Ross, and we know that because he's specifically said as much.

  14. #2654
    Mighty Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    The only known case where a real-life divorce was relevant to the end of a comic book marriage was PAD killing off Betty Ross, and we know that because he's specifically said as much.
    Yep. Actually, he said Bobbie Chase(?) came to him suggesting they kill Betty to spruce up the books, and because he'd just gotten divorced he jumped on it. He's also said he regrets it. That broke my heart back in the day.

  15. #2655
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    If you only read the last few issues of the run, I could understand this line of thinking. But to so ignore's the rest of the run, which is the reason the run is so beloved.

    What is sad is people thinking that one moment in a three year run makes the whole run worthless.
    if Jean was raped on the end of Morrison run you would still say it?

    I don't think whole run is as good as fans claim it, and to top that a bad fridging on the end. That was a ok run, that is too overrated

    Quote Originally Posted by PrezValentine View Post
    The mindset is that Marvel is too infatuated with Scott and kept Jean dead because they love him more than her.
    And this isn't the case?

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    The majority of the anger lies against Morrison for Jean's death. But last I checked, Morrison didn't run all of Marvel comics. Editorial could have brought her back at any time. They chose not to. That's on them.
    They could, for sure. But it was Morrison that wrote the story and executed it. He i smore to blame than Quesada. i'm pretty sure Scott and Jean wasn't on his radar if wasn't for Morrison.
    Last edited by spirit2011; 09-14-2019 at 07:18 PM.
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