Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[Agent Z]

Well in the original Claremont body-swap it wasn't from her own volition, but later as the bodyswap kept continuing and Betsy psychic powers kept improving it became kinda implicit that she chose to remain in Kwannon's body and several writers had characters call her out for it, with the sickest one going to The Future.

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I mean that's just ice cold.

As someone who is fine with the reversal of the body swap, this guy's assessment doesn't prove she chose to remain in Kwannon's body so much as she accepted there was no way to get her body back.

Hell, the original story has Betsy not Kwannon as the victim. Remember it was Kwannon who stole Betsy's body first.

[frostedemma]

Comic characters are rarely religious tbh. Only example I can think of is Kamala Khan. Matt Murdock is supposed to be religious because he hates violence but he's always having premarital sex. Oya is supposed to be a devoit catholic but I doubt it with how she's written.

I mean your interpretation of comic characters level of religious devout isn't necessarily reality. Magneto jewishness is very important to him as a Holocaust survivor, Pietro jewishness is important to him, Ben Grimms jewishness is important to the character, Islam is important to both Monet and Faiza Hussein, Kurt catholicism is integral to his characterisation and Kitty has always been proud of her jewish heritage until the late 90's and 2000's when writers started to omit her relationship to judaism from her characterisation. Just because a character is more secular in their practise doesn't mean that aspect of them isn't import or gets to be toss out the window by writers.

[Wolverine12]

Comic characters are rarely religious tbh. Only example I can think of is Kamala Khan. Matt Murdock is supposed to be religious because he hates violence but he's always having premarital sex. Oya is supposed to be a devoit catholic but I doubt it with how she's written.

Being religious doesn’t make one perfect. You can have flaws and still maintain faith. That’s the whole point really.

[frostedemma]

As someone who is fine with the reversal of the body swap, this guy's assessment doesn't prove she chose to remain in Kwannon's body so much as she accepted there was no way to get her body back.

Hell, the original story has Betsy not Kwannon as the victim. Remember it was Kwannon who stole Betsy's body first.

Kwannon didn't still anyone's body she was brain dead at the time. It was in the Hand's leader who wanted to use Betsy's telepathy to restore Kwannon and Spiral was the one who did the body swap. Kwannon from the start had no agency nor say in the matter.

[OopsIdiditagain]

I mean your interpretation of comic characters level of religious devout isn't necessarily reality. Magneto jewishness is very important to him as a Holocaust survivor, Pietro jewishness is important to him, Ben Grimms jewishness is important to the character, Islam is important to both Monet and Faiza Hussein, Kurt catholicism is integral to his characterisation and Kitty has always been proud of her jewish heritage until the late 90's and 2000's when writers started to omit her relationship to judaism from her characterisation. Just because a character is more secular in their practise doesn't mean that aspect of them isn't import or gets to be toss out the window by writers.

Not saying that a character's ties to a religion are less valid if they're have more "secular" practices. But if you write someone like Monet to drink wine or have Kurt constantly having premarital sex. It would make readers interpret the characters as not super religious. Of course Muslims and Catholics who do both things mentioned above exist but like the characters they're not seen as super religious. Doesn't justify writers disregarding that aspect but it may make reader from that religion take that part of a character less seriously.

Something like Kitty's jewish heritage can't be ignored because it's also her ethnicity regardless of what her character does.

[gonnagiveittoya]

On the topic of religious characters, I'm hoping the Kurt "starting a mutant religion" thing is just something that's going to be part of Hickman's overall story arc for his run and not just a way to write Kurt out of being Catholic altogether. I trust him enough to give him the benefit of the doubt that's not the plan though.

[Kingdom X]

No that was Kwannon's, it took place before Mystery of Madripor revert and The Future isn't just a rando, he's Shogo biological father and he was trying to kidnap Shogo back. He also studied in depth all the X-men at the mansion during that so he could make them tick and distracted. Anyways I don't know why people are still trying to debate the bodyswap in 2020 when everyone, Claremont included agree it treads into yellowface territory. https://womenwriteaboutcomics.com/20...betsy-in-2018/

Writers who came after Claremont may not have had the intension of making it look like Betsy eventually chose to accept the body swap and all the can of worms it opens but in the end, intent vs impact. I also don't think it's a coincidence that as soon as C.B Cebulski, who used to write with an asian penname, became editor-in-chief one of the first thing to happen was the reverting of the bodyswap.

Oh there’s not doubt that the real world implications of the swap are messed up. In universe though, I don’t think Betsy is at fault. Even if there was a point where she started preferring the Asian body over her original, it’s not like she could have just reversed the process.

[OopsIdiditagain]

Being religious doesn’t make one perfect. You can have flaws and still maintain faith. That’s the whole point really.

Religious means a deep belief in a religion and acknowledging when you're flawed too.

Characters like Matt where writer's pick and choose which religious aspects matter(e.g. violence is bad and Matt constantly goes to a confessional with guilt because of this but sex gets ignored) I can't call religious. They're still a part of that religion but the word religious wouldn't fit them.

[Hizashi]

Comic characters are rarely religious tbh. Only example I can think of is Kamala Khan. Matt Murdock is supposed to be religious because he hates violence but he's always having premarital sex. Oya is supposed to be a devoit catholic but I doubt it with how she's written.

lol, theory: Matt's Catholic guilt comes from all the pre-marital love-making he gets up to and not his superheroics.

[Hizashi]

I don't mind the poly thing and honestly they've all slept with each other so it's not like it's a stretch of the mind that'd they be in some sort of poly/open relationship between the four of them. I'm glad we're moving past the love triangle angst nonsense. What I really don't get is the writers trying to push this Kitty Emma relationship so hard when Emma trying to get Kitty to join the hellions lasted what? Four issues at most? For someone who said her entire motivation for joining Krakoa were the children, we've yet to see Emma interact and have any deep conversation or bond with the og Hellions and Generation X kids when they're the people who shaped her into the person she is today, not Kitty.

The same-sex pairings never happened though.

The answer to the love triangle should be to stop bringing it up, not to go polyamory.

[Hizashi]

Yeah, Psylocke, too. IDK, with Rogue, it seemed to suit her character and go with her costume. But with everyone else, it just looked awkward, superfluous, and unnecessary.

Psylocke? I associate her more with the ninja look.

Right! How could I forget Jubilee! Her jacket seemed a natural fit for her, too!

I forgot her too, it's okay.

[OopsIdiditagain]

The same-sex pairings never happened though.

The answer to the love triangle should be to stop bringing it up, not to go polyamory.

Polyamory just seems like a way to avoid making a choice with characters.

Rarely seen it written realistically, rarely any jealousy or insecurity involved.

[Hizashi]

Polyamory just seems like a way to avoid making a choice with characters.

Writers shouldn't take the easy way out.

Rarely seen it written realistically, rarely any jealousy or insecurity involved.

This would require proper characterization.

[Ambaryerno]

I mean your interpretation of comic characters level of religious devout isn't necessarily reality. Magneto jewishness is very important to him as a Holocaust survivor, Pietro jewishness is important to him, Ben Grimms jewishness is important to the character, Islam is important to both Monet and Faiza Hussein, Kurt catholicism is integral to his characterisation and Kitty has always been proud of her jewish heritage until the late 90's and 2000's when writers started to omit her relationship to judaism from her characterisation. Just because a character is more secular in their practise doesn't mean that aspect of them isn't import or gets to be toss out the window by writers.

You left out Sooraya, as well. Her faith has always been central to her, especially her struggles reconciling it with the violence she's at times called upon to do. For that matter, that's a big part of Indra's shtick too, isn't it?

[Psy-lock]

If Sinister can be trusted and on the council I don't see why Emma shouldn't be trusted. She's earned her place amongst the X-men. Plus by your own logic, people should be wary of Betsy considering she basically stole a Japanese woman body and has been using it for herself for years.

Sinister can't be trusted and shouldn't be on the Council. I'm not questioning Emma's place on the X-Men, I'm questioning Kitty's OOC behavior in regards to Emma.

The Betsy thing is just plain wrong. Her own body was stolen from her, she was brainwashed and raped by Kwannon's lover, they're both victims in this situation. Besides, the body Betsy's been running around in for years isn't even Kwannon's, but a construct created by Jaime after Kwannon's body was killed.