Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[Omega Alpha]

How far back does one have to go to use that argument, the late 70s, early 80s? Logan flirted with Jean that's it, he never stalked her and he never crossed a line that veered into sexual harassment or assault. And as a Wolverine fan you're ok with him being accused of molestation? Something that categorically never happened, Come on really! As things stand now Logan and Jean are the best of friends that care deeply for each other. Clearly she harbors no ill will towards him so these attacks against him are baseless and if some people dislike him for "crappy behavior" from 35+ years ago then too bad. You want to hate Logan for over saturation, for mixed characterzation, for so called hypocrisy then fine, but hating for non existent sexual assault and molestation is ridiculous.

For example, Logan forcibly kissed Jean by surprise in Inferno. In many countries today, that gets you jail time. In those Classic X-men back ups in which Claremont retconned the relationship, his behavior would be easily called harassment by today standards, and quite possible even by that time's.

[TheCape]

How far back does one have to go to use that argument, the late 70s, early 80s? Logan flirted with Jean that's it, he never stalked her and he never crossed a line that veered into sexual harassment or assault. And as a Wolverine fan you're ok with him being accused of molestation? Something that categorically never happened, Come on really! As things stand now Logan and Jean are the best of friends that care deeply for each other. Clearly she harbors no ill will towards him so these attacks against him are baseless and if some people dislike him for "crappy behavior" from 35+ years ago then too bad. You want to hate Logan for over saturation, for mixed characterzation, for so called hypocrisy then fine, but hating for non existent sexual assault and molestation is ridiculous.

He keep flirting with her and invading he personal space when she was clearly uncomfortable about it, especially in Claremont's Classic X-Men stuff, that's pretty crappy, he outgrew that and Jean didn't hate him for it, probably because she understood why he was acting like and pitied him, but people had different levels of tolerance for that stuff, so yeah i can understand why someone would do it, is one of the reasons of why i don't ship then. I don't count Inferno, becuase all the X-Men were being influenced by the evil of the place, even Logan was acting more wild than usual.

[Foon4000]

A lot of what's presented as 'flirting' in popular culture is disrespectful, boundary-crossing harassment. See: 16 Candles/Rocky/Grease/Love Actually. It's a self-perpetuating cycle of 'Han Solo did it, so it must be okay'.

I don't think CC set out to write Logan as a creepy fucker (not that it matters when Logan is a creepy fucker on the page) and hopefully would look back on those issues and regret some of his writing choices.

[myownlittleusername]

For example, Logan forcibly kissed Jean by surprise in Inferno. In many countries today, that gets you jail time. In those Classic X-men back ups in which Claremont retconned the relationship, his behavior would be easily called harassment by today standards, and quite possible even by that time's.

Not really fair to hold that against Logan.

Most of the X-Men were affected by the demonic influence from the Inferno. Colossus was partly protected by his organic steel form.

[TheCape]

A lot of what's presented as 'flirting' in popular culture is disrespectful, boundary-crossing harassment. See: 16 Candles/Rocky/Grease/Love Actually. It's a self-perpetuating cycle of 'Han Solo did it, so it must be okay'.

I don't think CC set out to write Logan as a creepy fucker (not that it matters when Logan is a creepy fucker on the page) and hopefully would look back on those issues and regret some of his writing choices.

Yeah, plenty of romantic comedies play as sweet and romantic stuff that in real life you would be like "dude, call the cops!" and in other movies when a character is supposed to be flirty or confident, he does often come across as a creep (looking at you Sean Connery Bond).

[Agent Z]

I recall this scene of Logan cutting Jean's dress while she was still wearing it.

[TheCape]

I recall this scene of Logan cutting Jean's dress while she was still wearing it.

That's true, but considering that early on, Logan was supposed to be more like an obstacle for Jott and pretty much had nothing more going for him at the time (it wasn't until Byrne when he actually started to have actual depths), you were supposed to take that as something bad.

[yogaflame]

To be fair, Jean did ask him to help her with that dress; she just didn't want it quite that short.

[salarta]

A lot of what's presented as 'flirting' in popular culture is disrespectful, boundary-crossing harassment. See: 16 Candles/Rocky/Grease/Love Actually. It's a self-perpetuating cycle of 'Han Solo did it, so it must be okay'.

I don't think CC set out to write Logan as a creepy fucker (not that it matters when Logan is a creepy fucker on the page) and hopefully would look back on those issues and regret some of his writing choices.

I've also seen that a lot of times, fictional relationships that people think are perfect and admirable are actually pretty abusive and sexist. But romanticization of it leads people to act defensive and promote it any time someone calls those relationship dynamics out for what they are.

[Omega Alpha]

To be fair, Jean did ask him to help her with that dress; she just didn't want it quite that short.

And then Claremont wants us to believe had had planned all along that "Jean quit the X-men because she knew she couldn't resist Logan otherwise" LMAO.

[TheCape]

And then Claremont wants us to believe had had planned all along that "Jean quit the X-men because she knew she couldn't resist Logan otherwise" LMAO.

For what i know, he was pretty vocal about why he did that (punishment to Scott for abandoning Maddie), it isn't exactly a secret. Everyone knew that it was a retcon.

[Omega Alpha]

For what i know, he was pretty vocal about why he did that (punishment to Scott for abandoning Maddie), it isn't exactly a secret. Everyone knew that it was a retcon.

I mean he's inserting that in back ups like it actually fitted the original narrative That was lazy, not to mention the whole thing is petty- the fact that even today he insists on throwing a Logan/Jean any chance he gets doesn't look good for him; for all the complains about Shooter, an actually controlling editor would never allow Madelyne to exist in the first place, plus he wasn't even writing Scott and Jean at the time.

[TheCape]

I mean he's inserting that in back ups like it actually fitted the original narrative That was lazy, not to mention the whole thing is petty- the fact that even today he insists on throwing a Logan/Jean any chance he gets doesn't look good for him; for all the complains about Shooter, an actually controlling editor would never allow Madelyne to exist in the first place, plus he wasn't even writing Scott and Jean at the time.

In a more positive side, i actually liked most of the backups, they were pretty good.

[Omega Alpha]

In a more positive side, i actually liked most of the backups, they were pretty good.

Most were, I agree. CC could be pretty good when he wasn't obsessing about a few points.

[Zelena]

That's true, but considering that early on, Logan was supposed to be more like an obstacle for Jott and pretty much had nothing more going for him at the time (it wasn't until Byrne when he actually started to have actual depths), you were supposed to take that as something bad.

In the beginning, Logan has been certainly portrayed as a… lump?
But, honestly, who is able to snub him better than Jean?
It's been made less to show Logan as a lout and more to show how strong is Jean (like in the very first issue of Uncanny X-men with Hank).
I think…