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  1. #6481
    Astonishing Member TheDeadSpace's Avatar
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    It feels like we've gone beyond the books/story at this point. I feel like assumptions being made over which characters you like or don't like isn't moving the discussion anywhere. I'm not sure liking a character means you have specific views.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    I’m really enjoying everyone calling Logan a hypocrite like Scott isn’t also a hypocrite. Also Scott, Emma and the X-Men were 100% in the right in IvX. The inhumans were straight up villains with marvel somehow trying to make them look like heroes at worst and innocents at best. Such a garbage story all around.
    True and a fair point. I feel like one tends to stick out more. Scott usually just gets labeled something else, lol.

    That being said, I'm curious as to what fans of IvX like about the story. I'm genuinely curious.
    Last edited by TheDeadSpace; 02-23-2021 at 01:37 AM.
    "This is starting to sound like a bad comic book plot"
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  2. #6482
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    The Extraordinary era never had a chance to be good because it was saddled with the terrigen most baggage. After years of mutants being on the verge of extinction no fans wanted to see a regression to that plot. It also didn't help that Lemire's writing was bland even when he had good ideas. X-Men Gold sucked because Guggenheim is just a terrible writer who was doing his Kitty Pryde fan fiction. Scott or Logan being alive for those eras wouldn't have helped with those fundamental problems or made those books any better.

  3. #6483
    Astonishing Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    They let people think he did something bad. The most important thing is that he did not commit any crime against inhumans, It was just a mistery to keep people guessing. Well they backed down because that was never the plan
    No, you're completely wrong there. You don't keep characters calling him the mutant Hitler for more than a year, then reveal nothing major happened, and it wasn't even him anyway, as a part of a master plan. It was clearly an idea they backed down once they realized how poorly received it was.

    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    But you can't deny that whenever Scott has been around (which is most of the time), he's completely dominated the stories to the detriment of most of the other mutant characters. The overall creative vision of the franchise has centered around him and before anyone could get their bearing when he was gone, he was brought back, and the pattern repeats itself. We need fresh blood, not only in characters and who the X-Men should focus on, but also with the creatives so we don't get the same bland and whitebread, straight male writers who can only see themselves in Cyclops. Even Chris Claremont, who was a big Cyclops fan, recognized his time was up and the book needed to set him aside so it could grow. If it wasn't for that, we wouldn't have one of the most dynamic female characters in Storm since she would have always played second-fiddle to Cyclops.
    That's pure non-sense. People keep complaining that Cyclops had a lot focus during the Utopia/post-Messiah Complex character, but he was the leader of the X-men, during a time where they were at war and constant risk of annihilation, who the hell was supposed to get a lot of most focus there? Some obscure D-lister? Was, I don't know, Dazzler, Colossus or Sunfire supposed to become the leader instead? And even then, Wolverine had a lot more focus than him, appearing in the main book, and being the lead character in X-force and his own solo. God forbid Cyclops getting a lot of focus, what's next? Captain America getting a lot of focus on the Avengers? Reed Richards getting a lot of focus on F4? Crazy talk!

    Mind you, even during that era, Wolverine and the X-men when started was supposed to be the flagship and main book of the franchise- it's just that Gillen's book was and sold better than it, and any other at Marvel, which is not something they were expecting.

    And it's bullshit that Cyclops had to leave the book and move on, like Claremont wanted. The reason Claremont wanted him to leave because Storm is his pet character (in his later years, to the point of near obsession) and he wanted her to lead the team, so much he had Cyclops marrying someone that looked like a clone of his dead girlfriend shortly after meeting her, with no one thinking there was anything wrong with that.

    Also, right now, Cyclops doesn't even appear in half the issues in the only book he appears and is supposed to be the lead character, this idea he dominates the franchise is a blatant lie.

  4. #6484
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    I’m really enjoying everyone calling Logan a hypocrite like Scott isn’t also a hypocrite. Also Scott, Emma and the X-Men were 100% in the right in IvX. The inhumans were straight up villains with marvel somehow trying to make them look like heroes at worst and innocents at best. Such a garbage story all around.
    The fact they had to completely retcon how Terrigen worked to and who knew what about its affects (IE after HoM Blackbolt KNEW that Terrigen was lethal to mutants. And yet suddenly everyone was surprised to discover this? FFS, most of the time it's fatal to other INHUMANS with most not surviving Terrigenesis) to force the plot along is all you really need to know about IvX.
    Still hoping for that Helix Reunion...

    The New X-Men: Can't let you grow up because you make everyone look old. But we can sure as @#$% mindlessly kill you off for shock value!

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  5. #6485
    eXpat. Formerly 'Arrjay'. Odd Rödney's Avatar
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    Yeah, IvX. Not a good moment for Marvel comics in general. The fact that no-one realized Storm could’ve dealt with that dumb terrigen cloud in, like, a millisecond was embarrassing.
    Pull List: X-Men - X-Men: Legends - X-Force - X-Factor - S.W.O.R.D - New Mutants - Marauders - Hellions - Excalibur - Wolverine - Wolverine: Black White & Blood - Deadpool - Cable

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam-X View Post
    Glad you liked the issue - but in a world where there's "Eye Boy" and "Nature Girl" and someone named "Cyclops" whose optic blasts for some reason don't shoot out of the sides of his sunglasses - and someone who ignites oxyenated blood is somehow too much?

  6. #6486
    Astonishing Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    The fact they had to completely retcon how Terrigen worked to and who knew what about its affects (IE after HoM Blackbolt KNEW that Terrigen was lethal to mutants. And yet suddenly everyone was surprised to discover this? FFS, most of the time it's fatal to other INHUMANS with most not surviving Terrigenesis) to force the plot along is all you really need to know about IvX.
    Also, this was literally after Maximus's Terrigen Bomb went off during Infinity, causing global Terrigenesis of everyone with latent Inhuman genes. All mutants on the planet would have been killed instantly by that.

  7. #6487
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frobisher View Post
    Also, this was literally after Maximus's Terrigen Bomb went off during Infinity, causing global Terrigenesis of everyone with latent Inhuman genes. All mutants on the planet would have been killed instantly by that.
    Guess Secret Wars caused a change in how the terrigen worked.

  8. #6488
    Astonishing Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    Guess Secret Wars caused a change in how the terrigen worked.
    I swear sometimes I just think they're making this stuff up as they go along.

  9. #6489
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    Did I say he was not dead? Please read more carefully next time. He had no issue wanting to kill Wanda for her actions, yet his girlfriend actually did commit genocide and in his name, and we haven't seen him address that with the same vehemence as he did with Wanda. Why is he not calling to burn the fake blonde at the stake or put her down then going by his logic and alleged principles? Clearly a double standard here and the same is true for his supporters.
    Read what you wrote. Emma was not his girlfriend when she killed the Inhumans. He was not around to react to what she did bc he was dead. Technically he already went through those vehement emotions about her when it came to that mess when he was a teenager. Jean helped him move past his anger towards her
    Last edited by Havok83; 02-23-2021 at 07:11 AM.

  10. #6490
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    But you can't deny that whenever Scott has been around (which is most of the time), he's completely dominated the stories to the detriment of most of the other mutant characters. The overall creative vision of the franchise has centered around him and before anyone could get their bearing when he was gone, he was brought back, and the pattern repeats itself. We need fresh blood, not only in characters and who the X-Men should focus on, but also with the creatives so we don't get the same bland and whitebread, straight male writers who can only see themselves in Cyclops. Even Chris Claremont, who was a big Cyclops fan, recognized his time was up and the book needed to set him aside so it could grow. If it wasn't for that, we wouldn't have one of the most dynamic female characters in Storm since she would have always played second-fiddle to Cyclops.
    Yet oddly, Claremont never showed signs of writing his favorites out of the book and into retirement. He tends to use the same batch, especially Storm, whenever he returns to the books, to diminishing returns.

    Writing Scott out of the books, at least the way he did, never made any sense. It would have made far more sense for him to become headmaster and teacher of the New Mutants following Xavier's departure, that way he wouldn't be able to be full time field leader and Storm could step up there. Even if he wanted to keep the reformed Magneto as headmaster stuff, he and Scott could co-lead the school and there is a LOT of potential drama there. X-Factor, ditching his wife and son and the literal demonization of Maddie were all terrible, but the creation of Madelyn was a terrible idea in the first place and got the ball rolling on harming Scott's character. Which Claremont irrationally held against Scott when he had his share of the blame of damaging him, and didn't use his position to mitigate the damage and instead made it worse.

  11. #6491
    Incredible Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    The fact they had to completely retcon how Terrigen worked to and who knew what about its affects (IE after HoM Blackbolt KNEW that Terrigen was lethal to mutants. And yet suddenly everyone was surprised to discover this? FFS, most of the time it's fatal to other INHUMANS with most not surviving Terrigenesis) to force the plot along is all you really need to know about IvX.
    There was the fact that Quicksilver was married to Crystal and had a kid with her. I think they would know if Terrigen was harmful for mutants. Of course there was the retcon that he isnt mutant anymore...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    I see way more writers projecting themselves onto Wolverine than Cyclops tbh. Also blaming racism, misogyny, and general bias from writers on a fictional character is ridiculous. I want a diverse X-line more than anything, but scapegoating Cyclops for all these clearly systemic problems with Marvel/ the X-Office seems like a convenient way for you to vent your frustrations about a character with no actual autonomy of his own.

    Also Cyclops wasn’t even dating Emma before he died. She totally went over the line with what she did to the Inhumans, but the mutants were actually the ones who were gonna go extinct cause of that story NOT the Inhumans. I believe the next time they saw each other they weren’t even on speaking terms and mutants were facing ANOTHER extinction, so don’t really think there was time to sidebar.
    I think writers see theirselves more on Scott, he is a lot more relatable than Wolverine. I dont think anyone is scape-goating on Cyclops, he really took over stories on X-men for decades.

    Cyclops wasn't dating Emma, but now he seems fine with her mass murdering ways
    Last edited by Rang10; 02-23-2021 at 07:42 AM.

  12. #6492
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    There was the fact that Quicksilver was married to Crystal and had a kid with her. I think they would know if Terrigen was harmful for mutants. Of course there was the retcon that he isnt mutant anymore...
    They knew. It was a plot point in Son of M

  13. #6493
    Mighty Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    There was the fact that Quicksilver was married to Crystal and had a kid with her. I think they would know if Terrigen was harmful for mutants. Of course there was the retcon that he isnt mutant anymore...



    I think writers see theirselves more on Scott, he is a lot more relatable than Wolverine. I dont think anyone is scape-goating on Cyclops, he really took over stories on X-men for decades.

    Cyclops wasn't dating Emma, but now he seems fine with her mass murdering ways
    Why would Quicksilver get Terrigen poisoning by sleeping with Crystal? There was literally a storyline where mutants tried to get their powers back with Terrigen and it killed some of them.

    Literally read any Ben Percy interview about Wolverine and you’ll see how people worship him. I’m not arguing that Cyclops was the focus of a lot of stories. I’m saying that using him as a scapegoat as to why the comics are very white male centric ignores the ACTUAL problems going on behind the genes.

    Is that really what y’all want in your comics? Pages of Cyclops randomly bringing up a storyline where he was dead and lecturing Emma about it? We’ve seen other characters reject Emma for what she did because THEY WERE THERE and it was relevant at the time. Like someone else said we even saw Teen Cyclops actively hate on Emma. I don’t know about you but I’d be mad if I payed for a new comic only for it to randomly bring up one of the worst storylines of the past decade.

  14. #6494
    Incredible Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    Why would Quicksilver get Terrigen poisoning by sleeping with Crystal? There was literally a storyline where mutants tried to get their powers back with Terrigen and it killed some of them.

    Literally read any Ben Percy interview about Wolverine and you’ll see how people worship him. I’m not arguing that Cyclops was the focus of a lot of stories. I’m saying that using him as a scapegoat as to why the comics are very white male centric ignores the ACTUAL problems going on behind the genes.

    Is that really what y’all want in your comics? Pages of Cyclops randomly bringing up a storyline where he was dead and lecturing Emma about it? We’ve seen other characters reject Emma for what she did because THEY WERE THERE and it was relevant at the time. Like someone else said we even saw Teen Cyclops actively hate on Emma. I don’t know about you but I’d be mad if I payed for a new comic only for it to randomly bring up one of the worst storylines of the past decade.
    Percy isn't a tipical nerd, he is a man of the woods. Most nerds are closer to Scott than Wolverine.

    What i want is accountability, seems like it is ok go after Wanda 15 years after that, when she did what she oult to atone it. She even repowered Rictor an would do it to more mutants but Cyclops thought it was more important kill her. And now everything is fine? reboot the line then

  15. #6495
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    Percy isn't a tipical nerd, he is a man of the woods. Most nerds are closer to Scott than Wolverine.

    What i want is accountability, seems like it is ok go after Wanda 15 years after that, when she did what she oult to atone it. She even repowered Rictor an would do it to more mutants but Cyclops thought it was more important kill her.
    When has Scott gone after Wanda? He did so once and that was almost 10 years ago

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