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  1. #7966
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    (...)
    edit: I mean when you just look through it given where we are now in Reign of X. You notice every. single. character. in Rosenberg uncanny has a place in the current one and a place that matters. He had Cortez in the background, sinister, hope played a large part, and then those who returned. I wonder how much of the new run he had read before writing his run.
    Well in hindsight it feels like his run was under a mandate to make everything as bleak and horrible for the mutants as possible, so that any radical different direction will be met with open arms. Which keeps making me wonder if the heavy retcons of HOX/POX would have been welcomed much less warmly, if things had actualy looked up well for the mutants beforehand?

    Also yes, it feels like he got a list of characters he specifically had to kill (Blindfold in particular) or at least let them show up so people remember they exist.

    It also wouldn't make me suprised if there is really a Dark Beast twist going to happen with Hank and his horrible characterization in X-force?

    Also i wouldn't say every single character. Marrow for example had a notable appearance becomming one of Emma Frost's right hand people in her newest Hellfire Club (getting a whole weird make-over in the process) together with Elixir (after both were part of Magneto's most short lived Brotherhood of Mutants), but it doesn't seem like she has any real place in the current status quo (a little appearance in Marauders and is part of a team that only in theory exists).

    Though i wonder if her Hellfire Club membership has ever been revoked? Imagine Emma Frost having a hellfire trading company party, showing the guest around: "Here are the fine people of Stark Industries, the Latverian minister of trade, don't ask he IS a doom bot, there is head of Roxxon europe and here we have an elephant man, a giant man with four arms, a shark woman, a wolf man and a woman with exoskeletal growths going hog on the buffet. Who let them in here? What do you mean one of them has white bishop rank access? I have not assigned a white bishop since... oh."
    Last edited by Grunty; 09-16-2021 at 06:59 PM.

  2. #7967
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    Maybe it did, but I don't think that's a good enough reason to justify the decision.
    I mean if they aren't writing comics to bring people joy what's the point though? Just because you and I don't care for that story beat doesn't mean it shouldn't happen.

    I couldn't be happier with the abundance of Wolverine coming our way, plenty of people here are less than enthused about it but it doesn't mean they shouldn't make the comics because plenty of people are excited. Can't please everybody all the time.
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  3. #7968
    Extraordinary Member jwatson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post
    Well in hindsight it feels like his run was under a mandate to make everything as bleak and horrible for the mutants as possible, so that any radical different direction will be met with open arms. Which keeps making me wonder if the heavy retcons of HOX/POX would have been welcomed much less warmly, if things had actualy looked up well for the mutants beforehand?

    Also yes, it feels like he got a list of characters he specifically had to kill (Blindfold in particular) or at least let them show up so people remember they exist.

    It also wouldn't make me suprised if there is really a Dark Beast twist going to happen with Hank and his horrible characterization in X-force?

    Also i wouldn't say every single character. Marrow for example had a notable appearance becomming one of Emma Frost's right hand people in her newest Hellfire Club (getting a whole weird make-over in the process) together with Elixir (after both were part of Magneto's most short lived Brotherhood of Mutants), but it doesn't seem like she has any real place in the current status quo (a little appearance in Marauders and is part of a team that only in theory exists).

    Though i wonder if her Hellfire Club membership has ever been revoked? Imagine Emma Frost having a hellfire trading company party, showing the guest around: "Here are the fine people of Stark Industries, the Latverian minister of trade, don't ask he IS a doom bot, there is head of Roxxon europe and here we have an elephant man, a giant man with four arms, a shark woman, a wolf man and a woman with exoskeletal growths going hog on the buffet. Who let them in here? What do you mean one of them has white bishop rank access? I have not assigned a white bishop since... oh."
    Also a very valid view and one i did take into account but either way in hindsight he actually did a good job of making the current era the success it is even if he did have to be it's onslaught. But i think that fell on the marketing, in this case it was promoted as the end of an era but i think if his run, looking back would have been promoted as the start of a new era it would have went over much better as it truly runs into the first 12 issues of all the new series very well and obviously he had to know quite of information on what was to come.
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  4. #7969
    Astonishing Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    You know re-reading rosenburg run, though he may have gone a bit far sometimes like the rahne scene he does not get enough credit for the amount of set up he did for feel good moments in the HOx era. The rahne moment of her being resurrected seeded by how heinous it was handled in the run. Or how many people have mentioned Joseph but here Rosenburg already answered the Joseph question via Kwannon. He basically returned kwannon to her prominence which sort of led to Fallen Angel and in a way Hellions. He put Jean and Scott back together by the end and that was explored in HOX and emma reaction to that. I have to say on a look back level he did exactly what he was suppose to do and i think if it was branded as like the prologue to House of X it would have done so much better and been better received.

    edit: I mean when you just look through it given where we are now in Reign of X. You notice every. single. character. in Rosenberg uncanny has a place in the current one and a place that matters. He had Cortez in the background, sinister, hope played a large part, and then those who returned. I wonder how much of the new run he had read before writing his run.
    On a similar note I actually think that Age of X-Man makes perfect sense as a prelude to HOX/POX. All of the mutants who didn’t go through hell on earth just got ripped out of an all mutant-society with no human bigotry in sight. Plus, Nate banned sex and romance so it makes sense that the new society they created would be as pro-sex as possible.

  5. #7970
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    I mean if they aren't writing comics to bring people joy what's the point though? Just because you and I don't care for that story beat doesn't mean it shouldn't happen.

    I couldn't be happier with the abundance of Wolverine coming our way, plenty of people here are less than enthused about it but it doesn't mean they shouldn't make the comics because plenty of people are excited. Can't please everybody all the time.
    I think your latter point doesn't actually support your former argument. Quantity of material for Wolverine isn't related to a story decision made at the expense of characterization. If Marvel wants to explore poly relationships they should either pick characters that make sense or make new ones.

    A story decision should be made with narrative and characterization chiefly in mind, anything else comes second. If consistently well written characters don't bring a reader joy, I don't know what to tell you.
    Does it need doing?
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    Then it will be done.

  6. #7971
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    I think your latter point doesn't actually support your former argument. Quantity of material for Wolverine isn't related to a story decision made at the expense of characterization. If Marvel wants to explore poly relationships they should either pick characters that make sense or make new ones.

    A story decision should be made with narrative and characterization chiefly in mind, anything else comes second. If consistently well written characters don't bring a reader joy, I don't know what to tell you.

    That’s a very good point you make. As I stated I agree it didn’t make sense to me (poly) but clearly it made sense to some readers. I guess my driving point it is just because I see something as in character for Logan not every reader will agree with that.
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  7. #7972
    Extraordinary Member jwatson's Avatar
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    If i were to reboot the xmen movie. I would start with jean and storm. Jean story would be the same when she met anna bitnafter that xavier would have adpoted her, the dcene with xavier meting storm would still happen but jran would have been there with him and saw storm running away too partially oblivious to the psychic battle xavier was having with shadow king. Storm woukd bave stull down her walk at 12 amd would have still been worshipped as a goddess but i would have shortened it to a year so xavier woukd have approached her at 14 but instead of xavier it would have been jean, cut to a year later when storm is 15 and jean the same age or 16 xavier is all 'jean, ororo, i would like to introduce you to scott summers.
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  8. #7973
    Fantastic Member Doom'nGloom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    If i were to reboot the xmen movie. I would start with jean and storm. Jean story would be the same when she met anna bitnafter that xavier would have adpoted her, the dcene with xavier meting storm would still happen but jran would have been there with him and saw storm running away too partially oblivious to the psychic battle xavier was having with shadow king. Storm woukd bave stull down her walk at 12 amd would have still been worshipped as a goddess but i would have shortened it to a year so xavier woukd have approached her at 14 but instead of xavier it would have been jean, cut to a year later when storm is 15 and jean the same age or 16 xavier is all 'jean, ororo, i would like to introduce you to scott summers.
    I'd make it so that in their first movie X-men is already an active team. Jubilee would be the audience surrogate, a new recruit to the team like Wolverine was in the first X-men movie. Charles was mindwiping anyone who witnesses an accident involving mutants like in X-men Evolution. He could do that since until multiple snaps mutants were extremely small in number around the world. He's also working with SHIELD to make sure that any footage involving mutants doesn't make it to the press. X-men usually handles only mutant related business and leaves other hero business to others to differentiate them from the Avengers. The villain would be Magneto and his brotherhood (I know some people are bored of him but he'd be the villain of only the first movie to set the stage). Seeing that mutant numbers are increasing across the world he fears their existence would become public so he plans to make the first strike against humanity. At the end of the movie the world learns about mutants existence. At the post credits scene Fury visits Xavier telling him that with Westview and flagsmashers governments are wary of powered individuals and now the world knows of their existence X-men should join SHIELD so that when world governments and humanity come for them, SHIELD can vouch for them and keep them safe. Xavier rejects him saying that X-men are students not soldiers and they will keep the world safe but they will do it in their own terms. The movie ends with X-men leaving the mansion as it is no longer safe so in the next movie we can have Genosha/Utopia/Krakoa etc.
    Last edited by Doom'nGloom; 09-17-2021 at 11:38 AM.

  9. #7974
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    That’s a very good point you make. As I stated I agree it didn’t make sense to me (poly) but clearly it made sense to some readers. I guess my driving point it is just because I see something as in character for Logan not every reader will agree with that.
    Thanks, and I can appreciate your point here. I will, however, maintain that there's no one who can seriously make the case that any of the characters involved in that polyamorous relationship was actually acting in-character.
    Does it need doing?
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  10. #7975
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doom'nGloom View Post
    I'd make it so that in their first movie X-men is already an active team. Jubilee would be the audience surrogate, a new recruit to the team like Wolverine was in the first X-men movie. Charles was mindwiping anyone who witnesses an accident involving mutants like in X-men Evolution. He could do that since until multiple snaps mutants were extremely small in number around the world. He's also working alongside SHIELD to make sure that any footage involving mutants doesn't make it to the press. X-men usually handles only mutant related business and leaves other hero business to others to differentiate them from the Avengers. The villain would be Magneto and his brotherhood (I know some people are bored of him but he'd be the villain of only the first movie to set the stage). Seeing that mutant numbers are increasing across the world he fears their existence would become public so he plans to make the first strike against humanity. At the end of the movie the world learns about mutants existence. At the post credits scene Fury visits Xavier telling him that with Westview and flagsmashers governments are wary of powered individuals and now the world knows of their existence X-men should join SHIELD so that when world governments and humanity come for them, SHIELD can vouch for them and keep them safe. Xavier rejects him saving that X-men are students not soldiers and they will keep the world safe but they will do it in their own terms. The movie ends with X-men leaving the mansion as it is no longer safe so in the next movie we can have Genosha/Utopia/Krakoa etc.
    I like this, I just wouldn't have them go island Nation so quickly.
    Does it need doing?
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  11. #7976
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    On a similar note I actually think that Age of X-Man makes perfect sense as a prelude to HOX/POX. All of the mutants who didn’t go through hell on earth just got ripped out of an all mutant-society with no human bigotry in sight. Plus, Nate banned sex and romance so it makes sense that the new society they created would be as pro-sex as possible.
    That's actualy an interesting perspective.

    Even if it wasn't intentional, it could still fit retroactively as implication.

    Though now that i think about it, Krakoa can also look like a "utopia" version of the earlier Age of X.

    Let's recap. Age of X was a fake reality in which mutantkind had banded together for their own protection in a massive citadel which was under constant attack by "evil humanity", which most of the X-men accepted as reality because it reflected the struggle they allready felt constantly, just more extreme.

    Krakoa is essentialy the same. A massive citadel under constant attack by "evil humans" and other outsiders. Only this time the world they shelter in is not a bleak fortress but an island paradise and the mutants are presented with a metaphorical carrot on a stick, that if they keep going long enough they will win, because they now have the "tools" to achieve victory.

    Also unlike both Age of X and Age of X-men they are not restricted in their movement and are constantly reminded that the real world still exist, so less reason to question if things are actualy right the way they are.

  12. #7977
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    Thanks, and I can appreciate your point here. I will, however, maintain that there's no one who can seriously make the case that any of the characters involved in that polyamorous relationship was actually acting in-character.
    Is it odd that if Jean and Logan were hooking up but Scott didn't know that it'd be more ic lol.
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  13. #7978
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    Unpopular opinions huh? Here goes nothing.

    Scott Lobell is the best X-Men writer and the Uncanny Lobell / Mad run was the best the X-Men ever were. The beginning of Bendis run was close (PoX and XoX too, close).
    **ducks**

  14. #7979
    Astonishing Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DjMichael691 View Post
    Unpopular opinions huh? Here goes nothing.

    Scott Lobell is the best X-Men writer and the Uncanny Lobell / Mad run was the best the X-Men ever were.
    You're not the only one to have that opinion, or close to it- but what everyone that I know that is crazy about Lobdell's run has in common is that this was the run they begun with X-men, and nostalgia taints their opinion.

  15. #7980
    Incredible Member Lady Midnight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJpyro View Post
    Not sure why they just dont make a new LI for Logan.
    They tend to die.
    Here's the thing;

    I don't care.

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