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  1. #6406
    Mighty Member whitecrown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Actually the original story happened in the 60s when Beast's origin story was given. The MCP backup was revisiting it

    Yes, I'm aware of the story but all Xavier did was erase the town's memories of his power which is perfectly valid and he's done that plenty of times before. He didn't erase anyone's memories of Hank ever existing, let alone his parents.

  2. #6407
    Astonishing Member TheDeadSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    I'll disagree on that. Hope was added to active X-men roster status on his Extinction squad and the kids he recruited in Bendis' run were all considered X-en and fought alongside him
    True, but Hope was there for other reasons and was probably one of the very few most trained for combat. As for the Bendis era, I disagree. The only allies he had were Emma, Magneto, and Magik. That's not enough for a team. When situations got worse, he tended to leave them behind. My main point was that the teens were never replacements for the X-men. He avoided their use whenever possible.
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  3. #6408
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    Yes, I'm aware of the story but all Xavier did was erase the town's memories of his power which is perfectly valid and he's done that plenty of times before. He didn't erase anyone's memories of Hank ever existing, let alone his parents.
    He's done it plenty of times before but didnt you just imply that this was OOC for him and cited Kitty's introduction to support that? And again the MCP story showed that Xavier did more than erase memories of Hank's power. He erased Hank from their memories



    The story is about Hank trying to reconnect with someone from his past who was affected by Xavier's mindwipe in the 60s. She had no recollection of Hank because of it

  4. #6409
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    Acting like Schism was because of the children is a really weird debate.

    The whole point of Schism is on that page where Scott just straight up reads through Logan and basically says "you're still mad at me because of Jean". It isn't even a freudian slip or anything. It's just Aaron confessing, through the characters, that he couldn't get over the fact that, ultimately, Jean loved Scott more and the Wolverine, the biggest X-Man, was being led by the guy who robbed him of his ultimate prize. All other takes on this are absolutely nonsensical, because nothing that happened in the past years truly justifies the story.

  5. #6410
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    I think the role suited Logan better than it did Scott. His writing wasn't far off from how Claremont characterized him during the second half of the 80s. Scott was the one who felt completely OOC with his child soldiers and statements like "burn the witch." If it wasn't for the name and costume, I wouldn't even recognize Cyclops.
    Child soldiers has been a part of the X-Men since conception.

  6. #6411
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    If kids didn't died they were pretty close to it, because Scott didn't cared if they died as long as he won in the end.

    Because realism is ridiculous, they were a bunch of teenagers that a adult was trying to help with their powers. There isn't nothing militaristic about it. The only difference is that Parker was a loner
    Talk about writers not even knowing what a child soldier really is.



    It was a forced conflict and writers really wanted to destroy logan credibility
    How do people think writers wanted to destroy Logan's credibility? They acted like he had more of a leg to stand on than he did. Logan wasn't the one being compared to Hitler.

  7. #6412
    Extraordinary Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    How do people think writers wanted to destroy Logan's credibility? They acted like he had more of a leg to stand on than he did. Logan wasn't the one being compared to Hitler.
    They didn't want to destroy his credibility, they just did. It's no coincidence they had to kill and retire Logan for a few years shortly afterward.

  8. #6413
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Child soldiers has been a part of the X-Men since conception.
    I doubt that anyone batted an eyelash about it back then: the X-men were presented as young adults not children.
    “Strength is the lot of but a few privileged men; but austere perseverance, harsh and continuous, may be employed by the smallest of us and rarely fails of its purpose, for its silent power grows irresistibly greater with time.” Goethe

  9. #6414
    Astonishing Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Honestly I don’t even know why Schism happened. Scott was gonna kill Xavier in a year anyway which is more than enough to break the team up.

  10. #6415
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    Honestly I don’t even know why Schism happened. Scott was gonna kill Xavier in a year anyway which is more than enough to break the team up.
    I dont think that was in the cards then. The Fraction era had been around for a few years at this point and had gotten stale. The X-line needed something to shake it up and I dont think we could have waited a year and a half for that to happen. On a creative standpoint, it did help give it the jolt it needed,

  11. #6416
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    Xavier's death was definitely a change that happened way later. So much so, that Emma replaced Xavier kinda in the last minute as the telepath in Age of Ultron. And Hickman planned to use Xavier in New Avengers, but had to settle for Beast.

  12. #6417
    Mighty Member whitecrown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    He's done it plenty of times before but didnt you just imply that this was OOC for him and cited Kitty's introduction to support that? And again the MCP story showed that Xavier did more than erase memories of Hank's power. He erased Hank from their memories



    The story is about Hank trying to reconnect with someone from his past who was affected by Xavier's mindwipe in the 60s. She had no recollection of Hank because of it
    He erases random people's memories to conceal the X-Men's identities. There's nothing wrong with that, especially considering the most famous example would be the Jedi mind trick in Star Wars. There's a difference between that and completely erasing someone's identity or mentally compelling them to stay with him in the X-Men. The only example I can think of the latter that occurred was in the 90s with Amelia Voght when she was retconned into his backstory and she left him and for a split second he reached out to her with his powers. When she realized it, that fully prompted her to leave and he was ashamed of himself.

    The issue with Kitty's parents was that they were upset their daughter was in danger. It's one thing to erase their memories of the X-Men but another thing altogether to take away their objections to Kitty joining the school, a line Xavier wouldn't have crossed. Hence why when her parents move her to the Massachusetts Academy, Xavier didn't exactly go visit them and brainwash them into letting Kitty stay. Same as with Jean and Metro College. I don't know why you keep pretending that him using his telepathy to mask the X-Men's identities as at all similar, especially since every telepath (Jean, Betsy, Rachel) is guilty of doing that.

    Like I said, I've never seen that MCP story ever referenced again by any other writer and for good reason.

  13. #6418
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    He erases random people's memories to conceal the X-Men's identities. There's nothing wrong with that, especially considering the most famous example would be the Jedi mind trick in Star Wars. There's a difference between that and completely erasing someone's identity or mentally compelling them to stay with him in the X-Men. The only example I can think of the latter that occurred was in the 90s with Amelia Voght when she was retconned into his backstory and she left him and for a split second he reached out to her with his powers. When she realized it, that fully prompted her to leave and he was ashamed of himself.

    The issue with Kitty's parents was that they were upset their daughter was in danger. It's one thing to erase their memories of the X-Men but another thing altogether to take away their objections to Kitty joining the school, a line Xavier wouldn't have crossed. Hence why when her parents move her to the Massachusetts Academy, Xavier didn't exactly go visit them and brainwash them into letting Kitty stay. Same as with Jean and Metro College. I don't know why you keep pretending that him using his telepathy to mask the X-Men's identities as at all similar, especially since every telepath (Jean, Betsy, Rachel) is guilty of doing that.

    Like I said, I've never seen that MCP story ever referenced again by any other writer and for good reason.
    Im just establishing that he has a history of mindwiping people bc you downplay the stories in which he has bc you didnt like it or hadnt read it. As recently as 2018, he used Warren as an assassin in AXM and erased the memories of the O4 when they objected to what he had done. He does this stuff to his own students and the precedence has been there throughout his history which is why I dont find it OOC when he does end up doing it

  14. #6419
    Mighty Member whitecrown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Im just establishing that he has a history of mindwiping people bc you downplay the stories in which he has bc you didnt like it or hadnt read it. As recently as 2018, he used Warren as an assassin in AXM and erased the memories of the O4 when they objected to what he had done. He does this stuff to his own students and the precedence has been there throughout his history which is why I dont find it OOC when he does end up doing it
    Most of that history didn't materialize until the 2000s which is what established that he goes around casually brainwashing his students and erasing events out of existence. There wasn't really any precedent for that besides the Dark Xavier we briefly saw in Claremont's run, Fatal Attraction, and Onslaught, and most of those events dealt primarily with Magneto and Xavier's psychic breakdowns. The MCP story seems pretty irrelevant considering it seems completely forgotten and for good reason, it's a terrible retcon and one I would have expected to see in the likes of Deadly Genesis.

    Keep in mind that Magneto also committed mass murders in Morrison's Run until editorial decided that it was way too extreme and OOC so they retconned that completely. Strange how this happened around the same time they were retconning Xavier's past with Danger and Deadly Genesis but the 2000s were all about seeming "dark."

  15. #6420
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrezValentine View Post
    Xavier's death was definitely a change that happened way later. So much so, that Emma replaced Xavier kinda in the last minute as the telepath in Age of Ultron. And Hickman planned to use Xavier in New Avengers, but had to settle for Beast.
    I think that ended up being better since Beast was already an Avenger anyway.

    And it makes Beast kind of hypocrite but get his karma, because he gave Scott so much **** in that era, and then played nice with Logan when he revealed he had his own X-Force.

    Now it was Beast turn (as Illuminati) to realize when your at the top, you have to manipulate and pull secrets for the safety of others and for the greater good sometimes.

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