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  1. #1951
    BANNED fsger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davetvs View Post
    I can't believe there are people who don't think Emma belongs on the X-Men, but that's probably because my first run was Morrison's so she's irreplaceable to me. The team dynamics are more interesting when she's around.
    Well, when her entire spotlight and development came from killing and keeping Jean death. One would wonder what is going to happen to moment some editorial regime gives at least the minimal respect to Jean's character. I never felt Emma belonged, everything from her was stolen, at the expense of other characters.
    Just see how now with Jean back Emma's role will keep getting smaller and smaller. That is what happens whe she depended on keeping others down and on being a replacement.
    Last edited by fsger; 08-18-2019 at 03:46 PM.

  2. #1952
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsger View Post
    Well, when her entire spotlight and development came from killing and keeping Jean death. One would wonder what is going to happen to moment some editorial regime gives at least the minimal respect to Jean's character. I never felt Emma belonged, everything from her was stolen, at the expense of other characters.
    Just see how now with Jean back Emma's role will keep getting smaler and smaler. That what happens whe she depended on keeping other down and on being a replacement.
    I assume you have only ever read X-Men Red and the last issue of Grant Morrison's run, correct? You obviously never read Gen X, anything in the rest of Morrison's run, or literally anything after. Only way you could possibly come to this conclusion.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  3. #1953
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsger View Post
    Well, when her entire spotlight and development came from killing and keeping Jean death. One would wonder what is going to happen to moment some editorial regime gives at least the minimal respect to Jean's character. I never felt Emma belonged, everything from her was stolen, at the expense of other characters.
    Just see how now with Jean back Emma's role will keep getting smaller and smaller. That is what happens whe she depended on keeping others down and on being a replacement.
    If wasn't for Hickman being her stan, I would agree with that

  4. #1954
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    If wasn't for Hickman being her stan, I would agree with that
    Her first role in Marauders in literally her stabbing Kitty and Storm in the back while working with Shaw the first chance she gets. Maybe you should remember that just because someone claims to like a character, it doesn't mean anything good for the character (See: Guggenheim and Kitty, Rosenberg and Havok).
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  5. #1955
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Her first role in Marauders in literally her stabbing Kitty and Storm in the back while working with Shaw the first chance she gets. Maybe you should remember that just because someone claims to like a character, it doesn't mean anything good for the character (See: Guggenheim and Kitty, Rosenberg and Havok).
    We still don't know if that's true or not and solicits aren't 100% trustworthy.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
    Wolverine, Venom Annual # 1 (2018)
    Nobody does it better by Jeff Loveness

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  6. #1956
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Her first role in Marauders in literally her stabbing Kitty and Storm in the back while working with Shaw the first chance she gets. Maybe you should remember that just because someone claims to like a character, it doesn't mean anything good for the character (See: Guggenheim and Kitty, Rosenberg and Havok).
    Havok nor Kitty were written as villains, they were still heroes. And I doubt Duggan and Hickman would write anything to screw over Emma, they are big fans.

  7. #1957
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We still don't know if that's true or not and solicits aren't 100% trustworthy.
    Occam's Razor: The simplest answer is often the correct one.

    In this case, the simplest answer is Hickman is continuing the last five years of Emma's publication history, giving some weak one panel excuse of "Marauders are a flawed concept, heroes are dumb, need the money to help a group of mutants we never see or hear about and will never be mentioned again" in the same vein that Rosenberg justified Emma being dumb as nails by giving a one panel mention of her trying to build schools for mutants.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  8. #1958
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Havok nor Kitty were written as villains, they were still heroes. And I doubt Duggan and Hickman would write anything to screw over Emma, they are big fans.
    They were written as heroes: but horribly out of character and completely hate able people. Kitty's portrayal in Gold is the current X-Men marker for "worst attempt to push a character since Ink", and Havok's portrayal in Uncanny had all the skill of a duckling with broken wings, and written solely as a mouth piece to remind the audience how much Scott sucks. Hero or villain doesn't matter, writing the character as consistent with the character's history and motivations does.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  9. #1959
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan Daddy View Post
    I can’t believe people think a woman who raped Storm, committed multiple mass murders, tortured children, and worst of all killed Butter Rum(RIP) belongs with the X-Men.

    There’s also the fact that she’s part of the mega-rich white elite and she’s involved with a pseudo-Illuminati that undoubtedly deals in sex trafficking, assassinations, and a slew of white-collar crimes. The reality of Emma Frost and The Hellfire Club probably looks something like Jeffrey Epstein and his secret club of pedophile politicians, princes, and billionaires.
    She did a lot of crap that are impossible to recover. It was a whole bad idea turn her into a hero
    also they never brought back butter rum

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    They were written as heroes: but horribly out of character and completely hate able people. Kitty's portrayal in Gold is the current X-Men marker for "worst attempt to push a character since Ink", and Havok's portrayal in Uncanny had all the skill of a duckling with broken wings, and written solely as a mouth piece to remind the audience how much Scott sucks. Hero or villain doesn't matter, writing the character as consistent with the character's history and motivations does.
    Hero or villain matter a lot. a bad writing is excusable, doing bad thing is not

  10. #1960
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Occam's Razor: The simplest answer is often the correct one.

    In this case, the simplest answer is Hickman is continuing the last five years of Emma's publication history, giving some weak one panel excuse of "Marauders are a flawed concept, heroes are dumb, need the money to help a group of mutants we never see or hear about and will never be mentioned again" in the same vein that Rosenberg justified Emma being dumb as nails by giving a one panel mention of her trying to build schools for mutants.
    Even if she is more antagonistic, Hickman and Duggan are still better writers than Rosenberg, so it probably won't reach that level, honestly until i see the official solicits, i'm going to keep thinking that Emma is just another member of the team who would more morally gray.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
    Wolverine, Venom Annual # 1 (2018)
    Nobody does it better by Jeff Loveness

    "I am Thou, Thou Art I"
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  11. #1961
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan Daddy View Post
    I can’t believe people think a woman who raped Storm, committed multiple mass murders, tortured children, and worst of all killed Butter Rum(RIP) belongs with the X-Men.

    There’s also the fact that she’s part of the mega-rich white elite and she’s involved with a pseudo-Illuminati that undoubtedly deals in sex trafficking, assassinations, and a slew of white-collar crimes. The reality of Emma Frost and The Hellfire Club probably looks something like Jeffrey Epstein and his secret club of pedophile politicians, princes, and billionaires.
    The X-men have always been about redemption and second chances. As mentioned, many of their beloved members have done just as horrible things that Emma has done, if not worse. Magneto remains one of the most valued and highest ranking member despite trying to kill many members of the team for years and seeking world domination. The X-men isnt about characters that have are squeaky clean with no marks on their past, at least not since the O5 days.

  12. #1962
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    There are many things that Emma has done that I don't like but at the end of the day she didn't really make any of those choices. Writers and editors do.
    Same with Wolverine, Cyclops, Storm, etc, etc. They all have done horrible things, things for which some will hate them. These characters are slaves to the creators whims, none of them choses anything, their thoughts and feelings obey what Marvel thinks the market wants, not their true characters (if something like that even exist, sadly they are essentially products).

    It is weird to judge them for that, they aren't real people.
    My ships
    Jean/Scott, Wanda/Vision, Rogue/Gambit, Storm/Black Panther

  13. #1963
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    The X-men have always been about redemption and second chances. As mentioned, many of their beloved members have done just as horrible things that Emma has done, if not worse. Magneto remains one of the most valued and highest ranking member despite trying to kill many members of the team for years and seeking world domination. The X-men isnt about characters that have are squeaky clean with no marks on their past, at least not since the O5 days.
    In support of this post.....

    How many chances has Mystique had again?

    Haven't the X-Men held out a hand to countless other villains, like Sabertooth, Juggernaut, and Magneto (again and again)?
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  14. #1964
    Astonishing Member Vegan Daddy's Avatar
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    Iíll die on this hill.


  15. #1965
    Incredible Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Her first role in Marauders in literally her stabbing Kitty and Storm in the back while working with Shaw the first chance she gets.
    You haven't read a single issue of this unpublished comic and are projecting wildly from solicits often designed to mislead. Chill out.

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