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  1. #1981
    Mighty Member RachelGrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    Jean died for a lot of reasons. And then it got baked in that she had a death/rebirth cycle, but she's always remained fundamental to the franchise. And now she's back. Again, if you want to bet on Emma or Illyana getting iced or marginalized any time soon, do you king.
    Jean died for the same reason "One More Day" happened. An idiot chief editor didn't believe that characters like Peter and Scott should be married, and self-same editor didn't like redheads. If Queseda hadn't been around I think Jean would have come back in Endsong or earlier. Or she wouldn't have died to a stupid character like Xorn in the first place.

    I am glad Jean is finally back and I hope she gets to show off how strong of a character she is in X-Force.

    As for Emma, I don't know what to think, the solicits make it seem like she is only going to be in Marauders occasionally and that she is actually Storm and Kitty's enemy. Maybe they are trying to mislead us, and I honestly don't understand why Emma would go near Shaw with a 10 foot pole as I am pretty sure she would like nothing better than to cut Shaw's head off and stick it on a pike. If they are just going to portray Emma as a villain I would rather she leave the X-Men entirely and join the Avengers instead. Emma has been portrayed much more accurately in Infinity War and Jessica Jones then she has been on the X-Men so if other books understand her character better then that is where she belongs.

  2. #1982
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    But she did go bad so there's more credence to this. The past 2 years have been about her being untrustworthy and unpredictable as far as the X-books are concerned. Her place with them isnt as firmly planted now as it was a decade ago with those teases you mention

    No she's never held power but she doesnt need it to betray them, which she does all the time.

    This brings another unpopular opinion. Xavier has done worse than Emma ever has. He's more of a villian to the X-men yet continues to hold power, respected and one to follow. Many fans have double standards when it comes to him simply bc htey grew up on him being the father figure and backbone but his house was built on lies. He's a terrible person that doesnt own his sh-t

    I would accept this, but they were retcons to make Scott and Emma look better.
    It's really sad how x-men were undone becaus eof writers being unhinged fans

  3. #1983
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    But she did go bad so there's more credence to this. The past 2 years have been about her being untrustworthy and unpredictable as far as the X-books are concerned. Her place with them isnt as firmly planted now as it was a decade ago with those teases you mention

    No she's never held power but she doesnt need it to betray them, which she does all the time.

    This brings another unpopular opinion. Xavier has done worse than Emma ever has. He's more of a villian to the X-men yet continues to hold power, respected and one to follow. Many fans have double standards when it comes to him simply bc htey grew up on him being the father figure and backbone but his house was built on lies. He's a terrible person that doesnt own his sh-t

    Do many people here like Xavier, though?. I think that i had seen more fans herr talking about his sins (retconed or not), than almost anything else about him. But yeah, after Wheddon's run, Deadly Genesis and Original Sin, they shouldn't really trust him.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
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  4. #1984
    Mighty Member TheDeadSpace's Avatar
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    Poor Xavier. The war between Emma and Jean is eating him up.

    Well, considering it's an unpopular opinion. I like Xavier.
    "This is starting to sound like a bad comic book plot"
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  5. #1985
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDeadSpace View Post
    Poor Xavier. The war between Emma and Jean is eating him up.

    Well, considering it's an unpopular opinion. I like Xavier.
    I did like him before the 2000s, he wasn't my favorite, but in spite of his flaws (wich were many) he was someone that i could root for. Sadly the 2000s made that almost impossible, i mean Carey tried, but it just didn't convinced me.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
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  6. #1986
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    I would accept this, but they were retcons to make Scott and Emma look better.
    It's really sad how x-men were undone becaus eof writers being unhinged fans
    Xavier was awful long before Scott and Emma's leadership but he was glorified for that stuff. Scott got blasted for having the kids fight, yet Xavier recruited teens and had them facing off Magneto in their very first mission! He's not remorseful and hasnt changed. You cant blame what he did in the AXM annual last year on Scott and Emma as Scott was dead and Emma was a nonfactor.

  7. #1987
    Mighty Member TheDeadSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    I did like him before the 2000s, he wasn't my favorite, but in spite of his flaws (wich were many) he was someone that i could root for. Sadly the 2000s made that almost impossible, i mean Carey tried, but it just didn't convinced me.
    Well, he definitely has had his rough spots, but I find the dynamic between Charles and Erik to be rather interesting.
    "This is starting to sound like a bad comic book plot"
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  8. #1988
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Xavier was awful long before Scott and Emma's leadership but he was glorified for that stuff. Scott got blasted for having the kids fight, yet Xavier recruited teens and had them facing off Magneto in their very first mission! He's not remorseful and hasnt changed. You cant blame what he did in the AXM annual last year on Scott and Emma as Scott was dead and Emma was a nonfactor.
    When x-men was being first published, kids where going to war. he was a dubious character, then came Scott and Emma as leaders he became a straight up villain.

    astonishing annual is pretty much the same cinism that gave birth to Xavier is a bad guy

  9. #1989
    Incredible Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RachelGrey View Post
    An idiot chief editor didn't believe that characters like Peter and Scott should be married, and self-same editor didn't like redheads.
    Citation needed (re: Jean dying in NXM, not OMD). Also, I was referring to Jean dying in the Dark Phoenix Saga.

    As for Emma, I don't know what to think, the solicits make it seem like she is only going to be in Marauders occasionally
    No they don't, that's wild extrapolation.

    and that she is actually Storm and Kitty's enemy.
    And that's the usual solicit doubletalk about ex-villains, especially Emma. It's never true.
    Last edited by powerpax; 08-18-2019 at 07:36 PM.

  10. #1990
    Mighty Member TheDeadSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    When x-men was being first published, kids where going to war. he was a dubious character, then came Scott and Emma as leaders he became a straight up villain.

    astonishing annual is pretty much the same cinism that gave birth to Xavier is a bad guy
    Xavier as a terrible person? Yes. Villain? I don't think so. I feel as if that's exaggerating some of his actions.

    He has lots of character flaws, but I wouldn't call him evil.
    Last edited by TheDeadSpace; 08-18-2019 at 07:44 PM.
    "This is starting to sound like a bad comic book plot"
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  11. #1991
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    When x-men was being first published, kids where going to war. he was a dubious character, then came Scott and Emma as leaders he became a straight up villain.

    astonishing annual is pretty much the same cinism that gave birth to Xavier is a bad guy
    Deadly Genesis reveals that he found a new team of mutants that he sent into battle with no experience and they died. He got hated for that yet he sent the O5 into their first battle with no experience and he did the same thing with the Giant Size X-men. What he did got a negative slant bc of the death on it but it was no different than what he had done in the past
    . He mindwiped Scott but we've seen him mindwipe people before to cover things up. The 00s only highlighted how horrible he was but mos of that werent too far off base from things he has been doing for a while
    Last edited by Havok83; 08-18-2019 at 07:45 PM.

  12. #1992
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Deadly Genesis reveals that he found a new team of mutants that he sent into battle with no experience and they died. He got hated for that yet he sent the O5 into their first battle with no experience and he did the same thing with the Giant Size X-men. What he did got a negative slant bc of the death on it but it was no different than what he had done in the past
    . He mindwiped Scott but we've seen him mindwipe people before to cover things up. The 00s only highlighted how horrible he was but mos of that werent too far off base from things he has been doing for a while
    He was shady, but they jumped the shark to make him the worst

  13. #1993
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDeadSpace View Post
    Well, considering it's an unpopular opinion. I like Xavier.
    I like him too. I think he is more important than most people give him credit.
    It hurts when writers decide to demonize him because he can be a great figure.
    My ships
    Jean/Scott, Wanda/Vision, Rogue/Gambit, Storm/Black Panther

  14. #1994
    Mighty Member RachelGrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Xavier was awful long before Scott and Emma's leadership but he was glorified for that stuff. Scott got blasted for having the kids fight, yet Xavier recruited teens and had them facing off Magneto in their very first mission! He's not remorseful and hasnt changed. You cant blame what he did in the AXM annual last year on Scott and Emma as Scott was dead and Emma was a nonfactor.
    Secret Wars 1 made me strongly dislike Xavier. Once he could walk he was so arrogant and controlling of the X-Men, I can see why he comes across as having a bit of a god complex. He was horrible to Jean, blocking her powers and memories. A good therapist would have actually helped Jean come to terms with Annie's death instead of burying it. Burying hurtful memories is completely bad therapy. Emma worked with Jeen for a few months and helped Jeen completely unblock her powers and learn how to use them, because for all of Emma's faults she is a much better teacher and counsellor than Charles' is!

  15. #1995
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RachelGrey View Post
    Secret Wars 1 made me strongly dislike Xavier. Once he could walk he was so arrogant and controlling of the X-Men, I can see why he comes across as having a bit of a god complex. He was horrible to Jean, blocking her powers and memories. A good therapist would have actually helped Jean come to terms with Annie's death instead of burying it. Burying hurtful memories is completely bad therapy. Emma worked with Jeen for a few months and helped Jeen completely unblock her powers and learn how to use them, because for all of Emma's faults she is a much better teacher and counsellor than Charles' is!
    You are right. He unlocks her TP when she's a friggin adult. He stunted her growth and only allowed her access to her powers when he needed to use her to fake his death.

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