Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[Ambaryerno]

Here's probably the most controversial opinion ever:

I'm for Laura being a prostitute.

Now how Quesada did it with the whole child prositution was definitely bad. I legit don't know how the Hell Marvel let him write that (even during those less PC times) and how he hasn't been cancelled for doing that, but the idea of Laura making a living as a prostitute is something I'm for.

There are just far too many privileged and rich characters in running around in comics. Everyone is a CEO, a lawyer, a doctor, etc, and in the case of the X-Men, some of them have never worked a day in their life due Xavier's wealth.

Then there's also the fact that I feel like Laura would suffer from "survivor's guilt". She managed to get out of being a super soldier at a young age, but I feel like she would feel guilty at the fact that there are a lot of people out there in the world who never managed to get out of whatever harsh lifestyle they are in.

I also think she would want to be a working class citizen who actually tries to help the down and distraughted. That she would actually want to help these people, rather than being like the various super teams who essentially protect the world at large but don't actually do anything for the little people cause they don't understand what it's like to be a little person (Laura being short, no pun intended).

It's controversial, but I feel like people are just quick to look down on these kind of people/professions. These aren't people who are beneath human or anything. They are people who got an unfavorable hand in life. There are children in Africa starving not for anything they did, but simply cause that's how the world works. I always put myself in other people's shoes, cause that could have just as easily been me. Everybody has a role to play in this life and the roles could have just as easily been reversed for all of us.

So I would love to see Laura actually make a legit career out of prostitution cause she definitely is the type who wouldnt like to feel privileged and want to be actually struggle like so many other people out there.

I partly agree.

Laura's own back story lends itself to the story. We've seen in other books that early on Laura was naturally submissive to authority figures. She accepted the X-Force posting because she literally COULDN'T refuse, and didn't understand she had that option. Cyclops was a person of authority over her, so she naturally submitted and viewed his offer for an order (and this is explicitly spelled out in the books). We've also seen that she's unusually receptive to people who show her kindness in any capacity.

Now, people like Daddy hit both of those points: We see that he can be very kind and sweet when he wants to butter someone up, but can turn cruel and heavy-handed when someone tries to resist him. This is how men like him ACTUALLY manipulate girls and women into working for them in real life. Laura was alone and on the streets when he found her. He offers her a place to stay, and Laura is naturally receptive to that. And once he has her hooked, he turns nasty and commanding, and Laura submits out of training, and because of her total lack of sense of self, autonomy, and identity. This really is how a lot of girls — especially those who have suffered some form of emotional of physical abuse — fall into sex slavery.

So I don't mind her having BEEN a prostitute for a number of reasons. For one, Laura is a character who's history is very relevant to the post-"Me Too" era. Her entire history is centered around autonomy, and you could do a LOT with her metaphorically as a woman. And there's a lot that could be done to contrast Laura's situation with other aspects of the sex industry (because yes, there ARE men and women who willingly choose it because they WANT to; but that's the key difference, one of choice).

However I DON'T agree that she should STILL be hooking (unless the story is set in the past). It's not because there's anything inherently wrong with sex work, but in Laura's case it was literally rape (she was under the age of consent, AND it was dubious whether she could have properly given consent if she wasn't under age). It was a loss of control of her body and self, and something that she has long since rejected.

So it's something that I think could be explored further, but only as part of her past and how she views it in the present (IE we've already seen that she has a quite violent dislike of abusers, pimps, and human traffickers).

[Kingdom X]

I partly agree.

Laura's own back story lends itself to the story. We've seen in other books that early on Laura was naturally submissive to authority figures. She accepted the X-Force posting because she literally COULDN'T refuse, and didn't understand she had that option. Cyclops was a person of authority over her, so she naturally submitted and viewed his offer for an order (and this is explicitly spelled out in the books). We've also seen that she's unusually receptive to people who show her kindness in any capacity.

Now, people like Daddy hit both of those points: We see that he can be very kind and sweet when he wants to butter someone up, but can turn cruel and heavy-handed when someone tries to resist him. This is how men like him ACTUALLY manipulate girls and women into working for them in real life. Laura was alone and on the streets when he found her. He offers her a place to stay, and Laura is naturally receptive to that. And once he has her hooked, he turns nasty and commanding, and Laura submits out of training, and because of her total lack of sense of self, autonomy, and identity. This really is how a lot of girls — especially those who have suffered some form of emotional of physical abuse — fall into sex slavery.

So I don't mind her having BEEN a prostitute for a number of reasons. For one, Laura is a character who's history is very relevant to the post-"Me Too" era. Her entire history is centered around autonomy, and you could do a LOT with her metaphorically as a woman. And there's a lot that could be done to contrast Laura's situation with other aspects of the sex industry (because yes, there ARE men and women who willingly choose it because they WANT to; but that's the key difference, one of choice).

However I DON'T agree that she should STILL be hooking (unless the story is set in the past). It's not because there's anything inherently wrong with sex work, but in Laura's case it was literally rape (she was under the age of consent, AND it was dubious whether she could have properly given consent if she wasn't under age). It was a loss of control of her body and self, and something that she has long since rejected.

So it's something that I think could be explored further, but only as part of her past and how she views it in the present (IE we've already seen that she has a quite violent dislike of abusers, pimps, and human traffickers).

This was my first thought. Laura can't be a "sex work is empowering!" character because her history with sex work is inherently traumatic.

[Ambaryerno]

Yeah this was definitely controversial. Idk I just feel like you would have to cut off a lot of Laura's connections to make this story work. She can't have any connections to the school or Logan because they would definitely financially support her. It's also hard for her to be Gabby's guardian if she's so financially strapped that she has to do sex work. I think the only middle ground would be to have her have an OnlyFans account (still doesn't 100% sit right with me, but I think it's more realistic).

Now this is part of why Marik brings up some good points about sex workers at the end of his post.

There ARE people out there who do sex work for reasons other than financial desperation. Some see it as a lucrative side gig even though they're already financially stable. Some do it simply because it's something they enjoy it. Not all sex workers are in it because they were abused, have low self-esteem, or all of the other stereotypes that are used to disparage and look down on them.

Now, that's also why I don't think having her CONTINUE as a sex worker is necessarily the right path, because Laura's experience IS one of the negatives (but there is ground for contrasting her experience with another worker whose experience was more positive).

[Marik Swift]

Yeah this was definitely controversial. Idk I just feel like you would have to cut off a lot of Laura's connections to make this story work. She can't have any connections to the school or Logan because they would definitely financially support her. It's also hard for her to be Gabby's guardian if she's so financially strapped that she has to do sex work. I think the only middle ground would be to have her have an OnlyFans account (still doesn't 100% sit right with me, but I think it's more realistic).

I don't feel like her having an OnlyFans account really tackles the issue. As I said, I feel like her being a prostitute kind of tells a narrative, whereas her bring on OnlyFans is pretty much just her sexualising herself for no reason, cause as you say she has people she can rely on. Her being a prostitute is her taking a stand with those in that profession and striving to change it.

I partly agree.

Laura's own back story lends itself to the story. We've seen in other books that early on Laura was naturally submissive to authority figures. She accepted the X-Force posting because she literally COULDN'T refuse, and didn't understand she had that option. Cyclops was a person of authority over her, so she naturally submitted and viewed his offer for an order (and this is explicitly spelled out in the books). We've also seen that she's unusually receptive to people who show her kindness in any capacity.

Now, people like Daddy hit both of those points: We see that he can be very kind and sweet when he wants to butter someone up, but can turn cruel and heavy-handed when someone tries to resist him. This is how men like him ACTUALLY manipulate girls and women into working for them in real life. Laura was alone and on the streets when he found her. He offers her a place to stay, and Laura is naturally receptive to that. And once he has her hooked, he turns nasty and commanding, and Laura submits out of training, and because of her total lack of sense of self, autonomy, and identity. This really is how a lot of girls — especially those who have suffered some form of emotional of physical abuse — fall into sex slavery.

So I don't mind her having BEEN a prostitute for a number of reasons. For one, Laura is a character who's history is very relevant to the post-"Me Too" era. Her entire history is centered around autonomy, and you could do a LOT with her metaphorically as a woman. And there's a lot that could be done to contrast Laura's situation with other aspects of the sex industry (because yes, there ARE men and women who willingly choose it because they WANT to; but that's the key difference, one of choice).

However I DON'T agree that she should STILL be hooking (unless the story is set in the past). It's not because there's anything inherently wrong with sex work, but in Laura's case it was literally rape (she was under the age of consent, AND it was dubious whether she could have properly given consent if she wasn't under age). It was a loss of control of her body and self, and something that she has long since rejected.

So it's something that I think could be explored further, but only as part of her past and how she views it in the present (IE we've already seen that she has a quite violent dislike of abusers, pimps, and human traffickers).

All very good points

Your right that her past as a child prostitute definitely is a problem, cause as I said, I really don't know why Quesada hadn't age her up if he wanted to do a story like that. Like I honestly have never sit and read the whole of NYX, cause the entire thing was so messed up that I couldn't.

I personally love redemption stories, so I personally wouldn't be oppose to a writer reintroducing Zebra and showing that he feels remorse for his actions and wants to run a legitimate prostitution business with Laura as a prostitute/bodyguard (for the girls, not him). That's another pretty big controversial opinion I guess, but as I said, I personally don't believe anyone in this world is inherently bad, but are simply just either dealt a bad hand by life or were nurture that way.

But overall, that entire part of Laura's history is definitely something that needs to be handled sensitively if ever it's tackled again. I personally would retcon the entire thing and age her up to 18 for NYX, but yea that still would leave the issue of her still thinking of herself "as only a weapon/tool to be used" that would also need some sensitivity to address.

[Ambaryerno]

I don't feel like her having an OnlyFans account really tackles the issue. As I said, I feel like her being a prostitute kind of tells a narrative, whereas her bring on OnlyFans is pretty much just her sexualising herself for no reason, cause as you say she has people she can rely on. Her being a prostitute is her taking a stand with those in that profession and striving to change it.




All very good points

Your right that her past as a child prostitute definitely is a problem, cause as I said, I really don't know why Quesada hadn't age her up if he wanted to do a story like that. Like I honestly have never sit and read the whole of NYX, cause the entire thing was so messed up that I couldn't.

I personally love redemption stories, so I personally wouldn't be oppose to a writer reintroducing Zebra and showing that he feels remorse for his actions and wants to run a legitimate prostitution business with Laura as a prostitute/bodyguard (for the girls, not him). That's another pretty big controversial opinion I guess, but as I said, I personally don't believe anyone in this world is inherently bad, but are simply just either dealt a bad hand by life or were nurture that way.

But overall, that entire part of Laura's history is definitely something that needs to be handled sensitively if ever it's tackled again. I personally would retcon the entire thing and age her up to 18 for NYX, but yea that still would leave the issue of her still thinking of herself "as only a weapon/tool to be used" that would also need some sensitivity to address.

You really ought to read the end of NYX. Daddy ain’t getting the chance for redemption.

[Dthirds3]

You really ought to read the end of NYX. Daddy ain’t getting the chance for redemption.

And didn't she take out the rest of the crew in liu's run.
Over all outside of Stacy x never really have sex workers positively character in the xmen (if wrong please correct me) hell thats not a popular topic in comics in general the only story I can think of is rent a girlfriend.

[Marik Swift]

You really ought to read the end of NYX. Daddy ain’t getting the chance for redemption.

Lol, yea, I know he died. Couldn't finish the comic, but still I read the summary way back. But it's comics, so nobody stays dead, lol.

[Ambaryerno]

And didn't she take out the rest of the crew in liu's run.
Over all outside of Stacy x never really have sex workers positively character in the xmen (if wrong please correct me) hell thats not a popular topic in comics in general the only story I can think of is rent a girlfriend.

Yeah, she totally flipped her lid. Of course it didn’t help that one decided to mouth off about it. Liu wrote a couple stories (the one-shot, and the first part of the Miss Sinister arc where she went berserk on a bad pimp. So it’s pretty built-in to the character that she doesn’t have a rosy view of the sex industry (it COULD be interesting to have her run across an escort or can girl who enjoys what they do. Lots of potential for conflict and debate).

[Dthirds3]

Yeah, she totally flipped her lid. Of course it didn’t help that one decided to mouth off about it. Liu wrote a couple stories (the one-shot, and the first part of the Miss Sinister arc where she went berserk on a bad pimp. So it’s pretty built-in to the character that she doesn’t have a rosy view of the sex industry (it COULD be interesting to have her run across an escort or can girl who enjoys what they do. Lots of potential for conflict and debate).

Thats kind of true it was brough up on the wiki while she hates the pimps and traffickers but is neutral to the Jon's, turning one down politely and save their life death of wolverine x23. I think she's only hates people who force others in to it. This could be really interesting if a writer ever cared or was able to cover this with her

[Celestialbodies]

I mean, we had good content before that era without Scott being the focus; I’d posit most of Cyclops’ fans would have been okay with his prominence being scaled back to let other characters breathe.

Having been on these boards and similar boards during that very extended period of time that didn't seem to be the consensus. Maybe things have changed now, but I remember writers, editors, and fans stating verbatim Scott earned and deserved that role. And anything to the contrary was laid at the feet of other character, Xavier and Jean seem to be the more consistent objects of their vitriol.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

There was many a comment about how Jean Grey kept Scott from being the badass, manly, RIGHT character he became during the All Cyclops All the Time era. And poor Xavier...over-the-top bastardization and death...getting kicked out of the X-Men because Laser Man is Alpha. Magneto kneeling in worship. It was hilarious because they were sooo over the top with it.

[Ra-El]

There was many a comment about how Jean Grey kept Scott from being the badass, manly, RIGHT character he became during the All Cyclops All the Time era. And poor Xavier...over-the-top bastardization and death...getting kicked out of the X-Men because Laser Man is Alpha. Magneto kneeling in worship. It was hilarious because they were sooo over the top with it.

Great times.

[Hizashi]

Having been on these boards and similar boards during that very extended period of time that didn't seem to be the consensus. Maybe things have changed now, but I remember writers, editors, and fans stating verbatim Scott earned and deserved that role. And anything to the contrary was laid at the feet of other character, Xavier and Jean seem to be the more consistent objects of their vitriol.

There was many a comment about how Jean Grey kept Scott from being the badass, manly, RIGHT character he became during the All Cyclops All the Time era. And poor Xavier...over-the-top bastardization and death...getting kicked out of the X-Men because Laser Man is Alpha. Magneto kneeling in worship. It was hilarious because they were sooo over the top with it.

Yeah, I haven't been on here very long, but I do remember there were a few who felt that way - although I'd argue that even then they were in the minority.

As for the All Cyclops All the Time era: yeah, there was excess, but to act like everything was to the benefit of the character is ridiculous. I don't know why Marvel insists on making so many of their heroes d-bags or downright villainous but they didn't need Scott as an excuse, they would've done it anyway.

The idea that Jean is holding Cyclops back or vice-versa is absurd.

[Agent Z]

Well if we're just throwing hand grenades:

X-Men Evolution Rogue is the best and my favorite version of Rogue.

I wouldn't say she's my favorite but I never hated her.

[PCN24454]

People think movie Cyke is whiny?

I don't know that I would say that. I think people just view the movie version as not as cool as many of the other characters, rather than him just being awful like in book canon.

Of course, he was whiny. Wolverine was the main character in that series. He had to look better by comparison.