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  1. #5551
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    Yeah, no one wanted this to be the status quo forever, there was a way forward. Marvel just messed it up, and that's putting it mildly.
    I sometimes wonder how much of the past 15 years of X-men comics would ever get picked up for movies, cartoons or video games with the X-men?
    Considering that these adaptions have a massive free pass on how they interpret characters and storylines from the comics, it makes me think that if House of M and Decimation was ever adapted into a movie it would be handled like Infinity War and Endgame.
    One ends in the big shock, in this case 99% of all mutants losing their powers, the other explores the post "shock" event world while the heros try to find a way to resolve it. Because i can imagine movie goers would mainly care about the horrible event to get resolved in the follow up storyline, rather than being willing to keep watching movie after movie of it getting worse. Having a lower tollerance for missery storylines being dragged out for too long than longtime comic readers.

    Interesting enough i can imagine a movie version would also be more willing to actualy depower prominent power players, since it wouldn't be meant forever.

    Of course with the movies there would likely not be an agenda by the editor in chief to reduce the importance of the X-men and especialy mutants in the marvel universe, because of personal feelings regarding them. So there would be that too.

  2. #5552
    Extraordinary Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post
    I sometimes wonder how much of the past 15 years of X-men comics would ever get picked up for movies, cartoons or video games with the X-men?
    Considering that these adaptions have a massive free pass on how they interpret characters and storylines from the comics, it makes me think that if House of M and Decimation was ever adapted into a movie it would be handled like Infinity War and Endgame.
    One ends in the big shock, in this case 99% of all mutants losing their powers, the other explores the post "shock" event world while the heros try to find a way to resolve it. Because i can imagine movie goers would mainly care about the horrible event to get resolved in the follow up storyline, rather than being willing to keep watching movie after movie of it getting worse. Having a lower tollerance for missery storylines being dragged out for too long than longtime comic readers.

    Interesting enough i can imagine a movie version would also be more willing to actualy depower prominent power players, since it wouldn't be meant forever.

    Of course with the movies there would likely not be an agenda by the editor in chief to reduce the importance of the X-men and especialy mutants in the marvel universe, because of personal feelings regarding them. So there would be that too.
    I strongly doubt we'll ever see anything that happened after Morrison, but before Hickman. Decimation wouldn't be done because the MCU isn't really interested in all that violence that naturally would follow, and it was really made by a non-sense Deus Ex Machina anyway.

  3. #5553
    Astonishing Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderClops View Post
    I mean, teenage Cyclops solo managed to outsold Storm solo.

    And outside of this lil corner of the Internet, not many people even know Storm's real name.
    I'd argue cause the Teen Cyclops book was better than the Storm book and not because of the characters innate popularity. Though I would actually put Cyclops and Storm at very similar levels in terms of recognition. Cyclops probably has slightly more haters cause the movies made him whiny and he had a stick up his butt in the animated series, but the movies didn't do wonders for Storm either.

  4. #5554
    Astonishing Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post
    I sometimes wonder how much of the past 15 years of X-men comics would ever get picked up for movies, cartoons or video games with the X-men?
    Considering that these adaptions have a massive free pass on how they interpret characters and storylines from the comics, it makes me think that if House of M and Decimation was ever adapted into a movie it would be handled like Infinity War and Endgame.
    One ends in the big shock, in this case 99% of all mutants losing their powers, the other explores the post "shock" event world while the heros try to find a way to resolve it. Because i can imagine movie goers would mainly care about the horrible event to get resolved in the follow up storyline, rather than being willing to keep watching movie after movie of it getting worse. Having a lower tollerance for missery storylines being dragged out for too long than longtime comic readers.

    Interesting enough i can imagine a movie version would also be more willing to actualy depower prominent power players, since it wouldn't be meant forever.

    Of course with the movies there would likely not be an agenda by the editor in chief to reduce the importance of the X-men and especialy mutants in the marvel universe, because of personal feelings regarding them. So there would be that too.
    That's a really interesting point. If they do end up bringing back the animated series it'd be interesting to see how those versions of the characters deal with some of these stories.

    Luckily, I think we can at least be assured that we won't get any adaptions of the IvX era.

  5. #5555
    Peter Scott SpiderClops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    I'd argue cause the Teen Cyclops book was better than the Storm book and not because of the characters innate popularity.
    The whole point of being popular is having commercial success even when it's a critical failure.

    And Cyclops solo had writer change, was shoehorned in a poor crossover that made it lose all the momentum and was starring one of the most disliked versions of Scott.
    Though I would actually put Cyclops and Storm at very similar levels in terms of recognition. Cyclops probably has slightly more haters cause the movies made him whiny and he had a stick up his butt in the animated series, but the movies didn't do wonders for Storm either.
    No, they didn't. They just pretended that they did. They didn't actually put any effort in making him whiny or a jerk. At best they had other characters, no scratch that, just Wolverine being irritated with him for absolutely no in-universe reason. People think Scott is whiny in the movies not because he's portrayed that way, but because the audience point of view character thinks that way. Protagonist centered morality.

    It's kind of worse than actually making him whiny.

    Here's something I wrote some time ago about movie Scott if anyone's interested: The bizarrely bad portrayal of Cyclops in X-Men movies.
    Last edited by SpiderClops; 10-20-2020 at 07:07 AM.

  6. #5556
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    ^^ he's absolutely right, you know.

    I do enjoy reading post from those who clearly understood on multiple levels what they've actually read. I always end up learning a thing or three.
    Except for the trying to make Scott a villain bit. Sure they wanted the school back and made wolverine the comically over his head school principle and Scott the edgey rebel loner badass. See that panel of wolverine saying ooh youÂ’re to dangerous now cyclop!

    IvX was the only time you could argue marvel was actually trying to make him a villain and even then they balked at the last minute over the terrible thing that he did. If marvel were really trying to make him a villain, he would have done him like they did bishop after messiah complex.

  7. #5557
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Happy to help. I just with more people didn't read the books on a "my favorite character is not getting enough spotlight" or "the character I HATE is getting too much spotlight" levels alone, though of course that's a part of the experience, and Hickman is a writer that invites deeper analysis (Morrison too).

    While we're at it, I am not sure how controversial it is, but I think people that genuinely hate fictional characters are disturbed. Sure, that are characters that I think that are vile, but fun to read, or those I genuinely dislike, but I think someone that hates a character like a normal person hates a corrupt politician, a mass murderer, or someone that hurt you or someone you love can't be right in the head. Even more to spend time in boards like this one insisting on how much said character deserves to be hated.
    Well isn't that why a lot of Cyclops fans loved the Utopia era because Scott was front and center and the most pivotal character. If Cyke was removed or sidelined in favor of another character how many of his fans would have be raving about that era. So it's easy to say readers should read and enjoy books regardless of one's fave being prominent. Especially if your particular fave (Cyclops) is getting all the focus and spotlight.

    With regards to hating fictional characters, that seems to only apply to certain characters (usually one's favorites). Some will say its insane to hate Cyclops or Emma or Magik; their only fictional characters, but will then turn around and strongly hate on Hank or Logan or Xavier. People will defend their faves from getting hate but if a character they can't stand is getting hate they could care less. Hank gets rabid hate on these boards much more venomous and vitriolic than Scott, so did Xavier and even Logan for awhile though he has his defenders as well. How irrational is that? Some readers/posters are more passionate than others and expresses that passion in ways both for and against certain characters.

  8. #5558
    Militantly Indifferent Kisinith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyajenkins View Post
    Except for the trying to make Scott a villain bit. Sure they wanted the school back and made wolverine the comically over his head school principle and Scott the edgey rebel loner badass. See that panel of wolverine saying ooh youÂ’re to dangerous now cyclop!

    IvX was the only time you could argue marvel was actually trying to make him a villain and even then they balked at the last minute over the terrible thing that he did. If marvel were really trying to make him a villain, he would have done him like they did bishop after messiah complex.
    It's not that they want him to be a straight up villain so much that they wanted him to be villainous. You can see this very clearly in the books that he wasn't in. The problem is that Marvel also wanted to capitalize on the large upswell of support he got so in the books he was in he was presented differently.

    You have to remember that he was supposed to be wrong in schism and again in AvX and then an outright villain in Gold/Blue. They just couldn't craft a compelling story showing him becoming a villain and increasingly relied on just stating it and hoping people would accept it. Every time they tried to make him the bad guy however, most of the X-Fans rejected it because of bad storytelling, because the circumstances made his actions relatable and because Marvel abjectly failed at making his critics sympathetic.

  9. #5559
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisinith View Post
    It's not that they want him to be a straight up villain so much that they wanted him to be villainous. You can see this very clearly in the books that he wasn't in. The problem is that Marvel also wanted to capitalize on the large upswell of support he got so in the books he was in he was presented differently.

    You have to remember that he was supposed to be wrong in schism and again in AvX and then an outright villain in Gold/Blue. They just couldn't craft a compelling story showing him becoming a villain and increasingly relied on just stating it and hoping people would accept it. Every time they tried to make him the bad guy however, most of the X-Fans rejected it because of bad storytelling, because the circumstances made his actions relatable and because Marvel abjectly failed at making his critics sympathetic.
    Cyke’s portrayal as the villain in IvX was some of the worst writing I’ve seen from Marvel. The dude is trying to save his people from extinction and sterilization and he’s the bad guy? Okay.
    You brought back Wolverine

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  10. #5560
    Astonishing Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisinith View Post
    It's not that they want him to be a straight up villain so much that they wanted him to be villainous. You can see this very clearly in the books that he wasn't in. The problem is that Marvel also wanted to capitalize on the large upswell of support he got so in the books he was in he was presented differently.

    You have to remember that he was supposed to be wrong in schism and again in AvX and then an outright villain in Gold/Blue. They just couldn't craft a compelling story showing him becoming a villain and increasingly relied on just stating it and hoping people would accept it. Every time they tried to make him the bad guy however, most of the X-Fans rejected it because of bad storytelling, because the circumstances made his actions relatable and because Marvel abjectly failed at making his critics sympathetic.
    And the end of the day I’m kind of glad they ended up telling instead of showing. If they had gone down the Bishop (or to a lesser degree Emma) route and actually had him do a bunch of blatantly villainous things then there would be a whole portion of the fandom that would bring it up every time the character got some focus.

  11. #5561
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    Cyke’s portrayal as the villain in IvX was some of the worst writing I’ve seen from Marvel. The dude is trying to save his people from extinction and sterilization and he’s the bad guy? Okay.
    pretty much...I see the letters "AvX" and "IvX" and think: "those are inventive ways of spelling the word "****", someone needs to give Oxford a call to update their records."
    My Summer rain. My rooftop in Japan. My quiet in the storm. *cries* Al Ewing is GOD...Praise His name! Uplift Him in song! Glorify His works!

  12. #5562
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    Cyke’s portrayal as the villain in IvX was some of the worst writing I’ve seen from Marvel. The dude is trying to save his people from extinction and sterilization and he’s the bad guy? Okay.
    Thank you, it can never be said enough.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  13. #5563
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    Well isn't that why a lot of Cyclops fans loved the Utopia era because Scott was front and center and the most pivotal character. If Cyke was removed or sidelined in favor of another character how many of his fans would have be raving about that era. So it's easy to say readers should read and enjoy books regardless of one's fave being prominent. Especially if your particular fave (Cyclops) is getting all the focus and spotlight.

    With regards to hating fictional characters, that seems to only apply to certain characters (usually one's favorites). Some will say its insane to hate Cyclops or Emma or Magik; their only fictional characters, but will then turn around and strongly hate on Hank or Logan or Xavier. People will defend their faves from getting hate but if a character they can't stand is getting hate they could care less. Hank gets rabid hate on these boards much more venomous and vitriolic than Scott, so did Xavier and even Logan for awhile though he has his defenders as well. How irrational is that? Some readers/posters are more passionate than others and expresses that passion in ways both for and against certain characters.
    I mean, we had good content before that era without Scott being the focus; I’d posit most of Cyclops’ fans would have been okay with his prominence being scaled back to let other characters breathe.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  14. #5564
    Astonishing Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    I mean, we had good content before that era without Scott being the focus; I’d posit most of Cyclops’ fans would have been okay with his prominence being scaled back to let other characters breathe.
    Give me a Cyclops ongoing solo and I'll not care if he completely disappears from the X-Men tittles and is erased from the x-character minds, hell it would be a great launching point for his solo.

  15. #5565
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    Why can't comics appropriate some concepts from movies? One major one I see is the sentinels from DoFP. Now those are some of the most menacing killing machines to grace the screen.I know Sentinels of comics at 20 feet may be iconic , but for many reasons they just seem incredibly obsolete and straight up impractical .I would rather they update the sentinels to what they were in the film, 9 ft tall ,lithe and super deadly and I don't mean adding power mimicry-that is overkill but just keep them body morphers to a degree and that's ok.Alternatively they could at least do them more like the MJJ furies(of Xenogenesis arc in AXM-those are way more menacing than legacy sentinel models)
    Last edited by Rev9; 10-20-2020 at 10:21 AM.

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