Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[Bunch of Coconuts]

But did he? Could Alex have spoken for more than himself? Had he ever any authority as an representant of the mutantkind?

As much authority as any other figure that wasn’t elected by a majority of the relevant populace.

[Kingdom X]

But did he? Could Alex have spoken for more than himself? Had he ever any authority as an representant of the mutantkind?

In that situation he was being propped up as a representative. He literally says “don’t call us mutants.” He was given more of a platform as the new leader of the Avengers and used that power to go to a press conference and tell the world about how they should address mutants. I definitely fall more in the Kitty camp but of course everyone is entitled to decide how they want to represent their identities.

Also being mutant isn’t just a gene in the Marvel universe. They were developing a whole sub-culture and even mutant majority communities.

[Rang10]

And you can choose to identify with whatever you want. Alex was wrong bc he got on a big platform, spoke for all of mutantkind and told the world not to call them mutants anymore while degrading the word. Its not a right that he had



You still dont get it. Its a gene that does more than that for a good number of beings in that universe. Being a mutant is a major part of ones' identity. As mentioned above, its easy for Havok to say what he said bc he can pass. Others cant and he had no right to speak down on the word mutant on their behalf. It was damaging for those who cant escape it

Kitty Pryde said it best

I don't think being a mutant is ever the same as being jewish or black. Bendis probably used the mutant metaphor for his jewishness, that is valid of course. for other side I agree a lot more with Geoff Thorne, as only white men often get storylines and the metaphor only works if people thinks genes are the most important thing ever

I don't think Bendis understood what Remender meant. Jewish is a culture/religion. mutants are only a gene. And there is reason to fear mutants.

Nothing wrong on Alex trying to unifying people, they are all humans.

[Omega Alpha]

I don't think being a mutant is ever the same as being jewish or black. Bendis probably used the mutant metaphor for his jewishness, that is valid of course. for other side I agree a lot more with Geoff Thorne, as only white men often get storylines and the metaphor only works if people thinks genes are the most important thing ever

I don't think Bendis understood what Remender meant. Jewish is a culture/religion. mutants are only a gene. And there is reason to fear mutants.

Nothing wrong on Alex trying to unifying people, they are all humans.

Bendis was working at Marvel, working on the X-books, had just finished working on the Avengers books for 8 with the same staff and editors that were working with Remender and was now working with the same editorial and staff that worked with Remender while he was writing UXM, and knows Remender personally. Yet YOU know what Remender meant and Bendis doesn't? OK.

[Zelena]

In that situation he was being propped up as a representative. He literally says “don’t call us mutants.” He was given more of a platform as the new leader of the Avengers and used that power to go to a press conference and tell the world about how they should address mutants. I definitely fall more in the Kitty camp but of course everyone is entitled to decide how they want to represent their identities.

Also being mutant isn’t just a gene in the Marvel universe. They were developing a whole sub-culture and even mutant majority communities.

The problem with words is that they mean different things for different people. They shouldn’t but it’s the case. If for a “human audience”, mutant is a synonym of “dangerous being and an unknown threat“, Alex certainly didn’t want to be considered like that.

He wanted to say to people that they have more in common than they thought. Alex cannot escape what he is: his “I don’t want to be called mutant” is rhetorical.

[Kingdom X]

The problem with words is that they mean different things for different people. They shouldn’t but it’s the case. If for a “human audience”, mutant is a synonym of “dangerous being and an unknown threat“, Alex certainly didn’t want to be considered like that.

He wanted to say to people that they have more in common than they thought. Alex cannot escape what he is: his “I don’t want to be called mutant” is rhetorical.

That’s an interesting interpretation. I honestly think it is really interesting when different X-Men/ mutants have ideological differences that go beyond “humans bad” vs “humans good”. I personally didn’t have a huge problem with Alex’s speech because you had other characters express their opinions on it.

[Grunty]

That’s an interesting interpretation. I honestly think it is really interesting when different X-Men/ mutants have ideological differences that go beyond “humans bad” vs “humans good”. I personally didn’t have a huge problem with Alex’s speech because you had other characters express their opinions on it.

Maybe a weird thought, but this whole discourse makes me wonder what is actualy worse, when a mutant refers to normal humans as "flatscans" or when they use the "human vs. mutant" distinction?.

Because going with the "human vs. mutant" distinction kind of implies a belief in the full seperation of both. That there is this natural fundamental divide that will alway make them seperated. Making attempts at co-existence pointless.

Hence why that moment in God Loves, Man Kills, were Striker is pointing at Nightcrawler and goes "You dare call that thing a human!?" is so strong. Because the normal human looking, but hate preaching, Striker is showing his obvious lack in human qualities, by implying the inhuman looking but very human in qualities Nightcrawler is not.

It's the classic act of dehumanizing another group of people in order to make acts of cruelity and violence acceptable against them, at least in the mind of the people doing the dehumanizing. Which of course has gone both ways throughout the X-men comics. When mutant villains used the idea of them and normal humans not even being of the same kind anymore in order to justify doing horrible things to them.

Which is also why it bothers me somewhat that many writers over the past decades have made the X-men themself use the distinction frequently too. While the X-men are obviously NOT villains and instead act as super heros with the involved moral values, for them to adopt the full blown distinction of not considering themself as part of humanity anymore, is kind of sad or downright disheartening.
After all, isn't that like them agreeing with Striker? That Nightcrawler despite all his human qualities isn't a human, because his super powers make him a seperated "species" in their view now?

Mutants are humans.
Their distinction from normal humans is a super natural element of natural occuring super powers. But in all of the "qualities" that fiction applies to the idea of being "human", mutants have it all.
Even when a mutant's powers turn them into living rock or metal, at which point they shouldn't have any of the biological parts anymore which in normal humans create all the emotions, feelings and creativity which defines humans as what they are , they still have them all (for better or worse).
Because thanks to the metaphysical nature of humans in fiction, they retained the "soul" and "mind" of being human throughtout the transformation their X-gene (where is it anyway in a being that has no biological form anymore? ...) caused, giving them some kind of compensation to the lacking organic basis.

Not to forget that the default state of any mutant is still that of a human, because in the absence of their X-gene or at least powers they almost always revert back to a default human state. Often even turning from a heavily altered physical state into the original organic one again. Just look at Iceman and how he suddently becomes fully organic under power supressors despite having previously been nothing but animated water monecules.

It's telling that highly developed AIs, aliens and even outer dimensional beings tend to not be able to tell normal humans and mutants appart easily, because what both might see as major point of seperation might be very trivial to them.

So while "flatscan" is a direct insult, using the "human vs. mutant" seperation can potentialy carry a far nastier intent, even when the person using it, isn't meaning to do.

But perhaps i'm thinking too much about it or forget something in my reasoning.

[Lucyinthesky]

Mutants are humans has been part of the X-men mythos from the beggining. Back in the silver age Master mold developed a plan to kill off all mutants and also those humans who carried with them the "mutant gen" . In TAS X-men they were even more clear, mastermold said "Mutants are humans so humans are asking us to protect them from themselves" this is also the reasoning behind X-men Days of future Past, where the sentinels rule over everyone, mutants and humans. This is supposed to be a narrative irony because the problem is not that mutants are not humans, the problem is that they can´t get along and in the journey each population has developed insults to call and dehumanize the other group, hence we have the flat-scan vs mutie insult. It´s also why I personally prefer the mutants as another race, not another species, which was a concept Morrison introduced to the franchise.

But I get the fear of separation making it easier for younger mutants to develop a dehumanized view of humanity, so I hope the X-books will look into this, like Nichcrawler´s "way of X" title, that will tackle some of this, this book supposely will be about all the moral questions Krakoa brings to the table for mutants and their identity and at Duggan is doing something like this on Marauders, showing the good side of mutants working with humans together, as well as Percy X-force, even if he´s taking a more cynical view of it. This is an important point and something that will be interesting to see develop in future books.

[Agent Z]

So is the KING of atlantis, and a lot of personal problems can be a big problem for ledership

This applies to Namor tenfold.

[Covetous_One]

Mutants are humans has been part of the X-men mythos from the beggining. Back in the silver age Master mold developed a plan to kill off all mutants and also those humans who carried with them the "mutant gen" . In TAS X-men they were even more clear, mastermold said "Mutants are humans so humans are asking us to protect them from themselves" this is also the reasoning behind X-men Days of future Past, where the sentinels rule over everyone, mutants and humans. This is supposed to be a narrative irony because the problem is not that mutants are not humans, the problem is that they can´t get along and in the journey each population has developed insults to call and dehumanize the other group, hence we have the flat-scan vs mutie insult. It´s also why I personally prefer the mutants as another race, not another species, which was a concept Morrison introduced to the franchise.

But I get the fear of separation making it easier for younger mutants to develop a dehumanized view of humanity, so I hope the X-books will look into this, like Nichcrawler´s "way of X" title, that will tackle some of this, this book supposely will be about all the moral questions Krakoa brings to the table for mutants and their identity and at Duggan is doing something like this on Marauders, showing the good side of mutants working with humans together, as well as Percy X-force, even if he´s taking a more cynical view of it. This is an important point and something that will be interesting to see develop in future books.

Race, based on academic articles, is a social construct that even those who denounce using the term still use it because it’s so ingrained in our language we just can’t help but use it. Though I have stated I don’t see mutant as a horrible term I still wouldn’t use to describe them even if outwardly they don’t look human or if they are composed of some type of substance. That’s why I respectfully disagree that mutants aren’t a race but just humans born with powers.

[Lucyinthesky]

There´s no real world direct analogy to mutants but the word "race" was used for years to make the analogy between mutants and racism in the real world.It´s not that I am saying is the most correct use of the term but it helps to understand the analogy and I think is a better than the term species, because that just puts mutants on a whole different category to the human species, when they clearly are still part of humankind.

[Rev9]

Race, based on academic articles, is a social construct that even those who denounce using the term still use it because it’s so ingrained in our language we just can’t help but use it. Though I have stated I don’t see mutant as a horrible term I still wouldn’t use to describe them even if outwardly they don’t look human or if they are composed of some type of substance. That’s why I respectfully disagree that mutants aren’t a race but just humans born with powers.

I wouldn't term 'mutant' racist, simply because it somehow closely connotes the exclusivity of a genetic marker the X gene.Now to be fair all genes mutate even in humans so I guess the direct imparting of this gene of super abilities is what is 'mutant'.I scratch my head for a better term maybe 'evo' as in evolved...depends how humanity would see the presence or absence of the ability in question, definitely if it's something they'd wish they had then it would be something like 'evo' if it's something they feel lucky to have dodged a bullet then mutant would most likely be used.

[Frobisher]

Race, based on academic articles, is a social construct that even those who denounce using the term still use it because it’s so ingrained in our language we just can’t help but use it. Though I have stated I don’t see mutant as a horrible term I still wouldn’t use to describe them even if outwardly they don’t look human or if they are composed of some type of substance. That’s why I respectfully disagree that mutants aren’t a race but just humans born with powers.

Yes, absolutely, though because mutants are distinguished by the X-Gene there is actually a much stronger argument for them being a distinct sub-group within Humanity than any supposed real-world "race". Even then, though, that's kind of a similar situation to people with red hair, or other traits based on an identified gene.

[Chris0013]

Sick of Xavier being put forth as this great leader...the guy is a manipulative, self-serving tool.

[Rang10]

This applies to Namor tenfold.

Namor is pretty focused on being king.