Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

He didn't whine though.

[Agent Z]

There was many a comment about how Jean Grey kept Scott from being the badass, manly, RIGHT character he became during the All Cyclops All the Time era. And poor Xavier...over-the-top bastardization and death...getting kicked out of the X-Men because Laser Man is Alpha. Magneto kneeling in worship. It was hilarious because they were sooo over the top with it.

Xavier has been a shifty bastard ever since he faked his death the first time and Scott is far from the only X-character who gets glorified. It wasn't even that over the top compared to others.

And if you ask a certain contingent of Jean fans, they'll claim Scott was holding her back too.

[TheDeadSpace]

The idea that Jean is holding Cyclops back or vice-versa is absurd.

I agree.

I know it's all subjective to some extent, but I'm not sure how characters can really hold each other back. I guess it's resentment towards how the characters (Scott and Jean in this case) are handled in the stories, but it doesn't seem plausible to me. Then again, I guess the character could just be written as a controlling jerk, but these two never really acted that way. At least to me. Maybe I'm missing something.

Also, concerning a lot of the X-men evolution talk, I agree with some in that the character depictions were some of the best for a few characters. Scott especially, for me.

[Kingdom X]

The idea that Jean is holding Cyclops back or vice-versa is absurd.

Retweet. It just takes more effort to write a functioning couple with realistic problems, so plenty resort to contrived love triangles.

[Kisinith]

Having been on these boards and similar boards during that very extended period of time that didn't seem to be the consensus. Maybe things have changed now, but I remember writers, editors, and fans stating verbatim Scott earned and deserved that role. And anything to the contrary was laid at the feet of other character, Xavier and Jean seem to be the more consistent objects of their vitriol.

There was many a comment about how Jean Grey kept Scott from being the badass, manly, RIGHT character he became during the All Cyclops All the Time era. And poor Xavier...over-the-top bastardization and death...getting kicked out of the X-Men because Laser Man is Alpha. Magneto kneeling in worship. It was hilarious because they were sooo over the top with it.

You aren't wrong, but you are leaving out a bit of context, at least with regards to the board.

As much as there were some very vocal Cyclops supporters, the Cyclops detractors were also super active and even more over the top. Damn near every time Cyclops was even mentioned certain posters came out of the woodwork to complain about the character, how he was the sum of all evil and that his very presence infected the X-Men, and that he was personally holding back other more worthy characters. For a while there, especially during the revolution era, every time an issue of Uncanny came out the thread discussing it would balloon to 40 or 50 pages of bickering. At least once a week a thread was started on how Cyclops was the worst character ever, responsible for everything bad that had ever happened for the past 30 years and was probably plotting to put babies on spikes.

Within the Cyclops appreciation thread, things were generally a lot more laid back, strange... very strange at times, but far less over the top in what they wanted for the character.

The very worst really seemed to be between some of the Storm fans and some of the Cyclops fans, I remember reading those threads and wanting to grab some popcorn while watching the carnage.

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

Hold on a second, are we seriously going to pretend Chris Claremont didn't try to make a huge plot point out of Scott holding Jean back?

[Havok83]

The idea that Jean is holding Cyclops back or vice-versa is absurd.

I agree.

I know it's all subjective to some extent, but I'm not sure how characters can really hold each other back. I guess it's resentment towards how the characters (Scott and Jean in this case) are handled in the stories, but it doesn't seem plausible to me. Then again, I guess the character could just be written as a controlling jerk, but these two never really acted that way. At least to me. Maybe I'm missing something.

I mean Scott did hold Jean back to a degree. He was not supportive of her in the late 90s when she wanted to explore her powers





He yelled at her when she brought this up and she admitted that she surpressed herself to keep him from being upset. This came at a time when he was recuperating from injuries and she was put in a position to care for him as he was forced to step down from being the X-men's leader and I do think that also played into his ego at that time. Ironically in Morrison's run she fully embraced her powers irrespective of Scott and that partially drove them apart

[Wiccan]

I don't think they mean literally, but on a meta sense. As in the characters' relationship doesn't allow them to be written in their best way.

In that sense, I'd say Scott held back Jean when they decided she should die/stay dead for him to be with his new cooler, sexier and edgier girlfriend. Of course, it's not really his fault. It's Joe Quesada, Morrison(depending on who you ask) and sexism and the overall state of Marvel in the mid 2000's.

I disagree that them being together right now(or ever) does her any harm though.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I mean Scott did hold Jean back to a degree. He was not supportive of her in the late 90s when she wanted to explore her powers





He yelled at her when she brought this up and she admitted that she surpressed herself to keep him from being upset. This came at a time when he was recuperating from injuries and she was put in a position to care for him as he was forced to step down from being the X-men's leader and I do think that also played into his ego at that time. Ironically in Morrison's run she fully embraced her powers irrespective of Scott and that partially drove them apart

That's mostly what drove them apart.

Then she twice gave acknowledgement of Scott/Emma before being killed off in celebration of it. And took heat from Cyke writers and regular Cyke fanboys alike for being a cold goddess. That nostalgia has today's creative teams walking that back is so...low-quality.

They've pretty much robbed Jean of the events of the Morrison run so she can float dishes like it never happened lol. Definitely being held back.

[Ra-El]

Hold on a second, are we seriously going to pretend Chris Claremont didn't try to make a huge plot point out of Scott holding Jean back?

After Marvel didn't let him retire Cyclops for good, I think Claremont got a little petty with the character.

[Agent Z]

That's mostly what drove them apart.

Then she twice gave acknowledgement of Scott/Emma before being killed off in celebration of it. And took heat from Cyke writers and regular Cyke fanboys alike for being a cold goddess. That nostalgia has today's creative teams walking that back is so...low-quality.

They've pretty much robbed Jean of the events of the Morrison run so she can float dishes like it never happened lol. Definitely being held back.

You do know Morrison was the one who killed off Jean and had her give her blessing to Scott and Emma's relationship?

And what are you talking about with writers giving Jean heat for being a cold goddess? They never treated her like that.

[AvP369]

Maybe it's just me, but mutants seem super pathetic right now, believing that they are superior with their immortality when they exist in the same universe as a guy like Miles Warren, a guy who can clone whoever he wants without as many complications or processes as The Five and he did it like forty years before.
They are literally the same people and they even have their soul intact as demonstrated with Curt Connors' son.

[Omega Alpha]

After Marvel didn't let him retire Cyclops for good, I think Claremont got a little petty with the character.

Not just a little.

[TheDeadSpace]

I don't think they mean literally, but on a meta sense. As in the characters' relationship doesn't allow them to be written in their best way.

In that sense, I'd say Scott held back Jean when they decided she should die/stay dead for him to be with his new cooler, sexier and edgier girlfriend. Of course, it's not really his fault. It's Joe Quesada, Morrison(depending on who you ask) and sexism and the overall state of Marvel in the mid 2000's.

I disagree that them being together right now(or ever) does her any harm though.

This is pretty much what I was getting at.

I mean Scott did hold Jean back to a degree. He was not supportive of her in the late 90s when she wanted to explore her powers





He yelled at her when she brought this up and she admitted that she surpressed herself to keep him from being upset. This came at a time when he was recuperating from injuries and she was put in a position to care for him as he was forced to step down from being the X-men's leader and I do think that also played into his ego at that time. Ironically in Morrison's run she fully embraced her powers irrespective of Scott and that partially drove them apart

To a degree, sure, but that wasn't the main reason if I remember correctly. He mostly got upset because of the Phoenix related aspects than just the powers. He had his own trauma related to the Phoenix and she had her own from the experience. She wanted to move forward and had the right to, but his feelings needed to also be addressed in story. I think it would have been odd if it was never addressed.

As for them drifting apart, I'm pretty sure that's more in relation to a lack of relating to one another rather than her power upgrade by itself. Morrison made it pretty clear that she had other things to focus on while he had his own issues and difficulty communicating. That resulted in them seeking out others.

After Marvel didn't let him retire Cyclops for good, I think Claremont got a little petty with the character.

Well, the events with Maddie made things even worse.

[Woozie]

I don't think they mean literally, but on a meta sense. As in the characters' relationship doesn't allow them to be written in their best way.

In that sense, I'd say Scott held back Jean when they decided she should die/stay dead for him to be with his new cooler, sexier and edgier girlfriend. Of course, it's not really his fault. It's Joe Quesada, Morrison(depending on who you ask) and sexism and the overall state of Marvel in the mid 2000's.

I disagree that them being together right now(or ever) does her any harm though.

If anything, I'd say her largely secondary support role in DoX is what's hampering Jean as a character more than anything else nowadays.