Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[Silver Fang]

1- Popularity is something different. That has nothing to do with being POC. Characters are popular because people identify as them/like them not for editorial pushes. Popularity is something natural, it can't be forced.

Characters are popular when actual effort is put into writing them & making them look good. Sometimes at blatant expense of other characters. The popular characters weren't created popular. They became that way with genuine story & development.

2- You pointed Storm being painted as a bad leader, wasn't the last Uncanny run about how bad leader was Cyclops with some saying directly that he sucks at it and everything is his fault? he has been on an apology tour since AvX.

And yet he still was the leader in Uncanny, and still seems high in the rankings in HoX. So that hasn't stopped him. meanwhile Storm hasn't been leading anything. Except the award for being the token black female.

You people keep throwing Bishop, not me. Anyway Cyclops suffered too, he was made a terrorist, a pariah to the entire marvel universe, Marvel paints him as a bad father and husband. Do you think they would dare to do that with Bishop??? I don't think so.

They've already character assassinated him and turned him into a baby killer for the sake of a white character's story. Hope. His treatment wasn't good at that point, especially going there with the only black male character we had.

Synch, maybe nobody is interested enough in writing him to bring him back. that has more to do with popularity rather than being POC.

Yet Madrox of all characters gets brought back and had a mini series dedicated to him. I can't imagine he's that phenomenal of a character. Hell using one of my former favs. Sabretooth. He WAS a good villain, and he WAS popular. Now he's one of the biggest losers in the X-verse. He is certainly not written as a serious character that anyone cares about, yet he can have his head cut off 3 times in the past year & keep coming back sucking up panel time being a useless jobber. But yet somehow Synch can't be brought back? Especially when Destiny is going to be showing up somewhere in HOX. I don't think Synch hasn't been referenced to since he was killed 20+ years ago. Monet loved him in GenX, he was killed and that was that. Meanwhile she had a bigger reaction to Madrox one-night standing her, and dying than she did Synch.

They'll revive or make use of what seem like some of the most obscure white characters who can't be that popular. But 99% of the black characters stay in limbo.

Triagle, yes, that sucked, usually happens when people with similar powers even if they are both white.
I liked vampire Jubilee.

But they're weren't. One was white, the other was black. And it's the black guy who got the boot. Meanwhile there's about 5 Wolverines running around that nobody has gotten rid of yet, besides Mary Sue Logan aka Old Man Logan.

3-getting solos and teams depends on the fans, on the popularity, on how much each character can sell. Not on being POC, many white characters don't sell and for that they don't appear anywhere.

And many white character appear everywhere while black characters go in & out of limbo, except the queen of tokenism, Storm.

So again. there's more white characters that get great treatment than black characters, which there aren't many of, nor do they get treatment that's ever that good.

To bring up my classic example. If you complain the black guy always dies in horror films. Someone will argue "More white people got killed." Why is that? because it was more white people around in the first place & more to spare. Lets say you got 8 characters. 1 black, 1 Asian, and 6 white. The black & Asian characters get killed off. That's two minorities. Then 4 of the 6 white people get killed, plus the other white extras in the film. Sure that was more white people dying. But we still had more white people living too -when the final ones standing are the white characters, meanwhile all of the 2 minorities around were axed.

[spirit2011]

Listen, I'm not attacking Bishop. He wasn't even on my original post but you keep mentioning him. But the fact that you are defending him and yet hating on Cyclops is what i'm trying to point. Cyclops was intentionally made unlikeable to the point were fans hate him for the same writer/editorial decision of making them mess up.
To understand my point do me this favor and tell me
how do you feel about Cyclops? how do you feel about Bishop? and why? Why Bishop is a victim but Cyclops an ass? (i'm feeling there is something other than the POC treatment on your comment)

Cyclops is allowed to make mistakes and still is loved by majority of fandom. He still get the spotlight on books.
Bishop got a heel turn from nowhere, first he betrayed the x-men on civil war and later tried to murder Hope, then commited mass murder. None of these makes sense, Bishop is the biggest x-men fanboy. He got out of X-men books for years and his redemption story was on a seondary book that few were reading (people still surprised to see him with x-men, majority didn't read it)

Honestly, I'm more confused as to why Cyclops and Bishop get brought up together so often?

At the same time tat Cyclops was growing on popularity and character on books, Bishop was deacreasing popularity and betraying the x-men.
I'm not saying that these are connected, but it was a choice made by editors and writers

[thechronic92]

If Marvel really hated Cyclops, he would have been written out of the books a long time ago.

[TheDeadSpace]

If Marvel really hated Cyclops, he would have been written out of the books a long time ago.

Honestly, as long as a character makes them money, I'm pretty sure Marvel likes every character. On the other hand, that doesn't necessarily apply to the people that make the books.

[CuteNimrod]

Cyclops is allowed to make mistakes and still is loved by majority of fandom. He still get the spotlight on books.
Bishop got a heel turn from nowhere, first he betrayed the x-men on civil war and later tried to murder Hope, then commited mass murder. None of these makes sense, Bishop is the biggest x-men fanboy. He got out of X-men books for years and his redemption story was on a seondary book that few were reading (people still surprised to see him with x-men, majority didn't read it)

And yet you hate one but not the other.
People going evil is something that happens all the time on comics. Jean was turned evil, Cyclops was turned evil, etc, etc.

Getting oportunities depends on the characters popularity, it sucks but is the truth. Characters that sell more appear more, that is nobody's fault. Like Cyclops has nothing to do with Bishop or any other character (of any race or sexuality) getting oportunities or not.

You're the ones who keep making me talk about Bishop people, I personally don't have any feelings good or bad towards him but if the plan is to keep saying that Cyclops is the worst while ignoring some obvious issues on Bishop's case, I will keep pointing flaws. Or both are evil or both are victims, no double standards please.

This was never about Bishop but about victimising POCs while other characters get trashed too even if they are white

[CuteNimrod]

If Marvel really hated Cyclops, he would have been written out of the books a long time ago.

He makes them money, they aren't going to write him out, that wouldn't be an smart business decision.

[CuteNimrod]

Characters are popular when actual effort is put into writing them & making them look good. Sometimes at blatant expense of other characters. The popular characters weren't created popular. They became that way with genuine story & development.


And yet he still was the leader in Uncanny, and still seems high in the rankings in HoX. So that hasn't stopped him. meanwhile Storm hasn't been leading anything. Except the award for being the token black female.


They've already character assassinated him and turned him into a baby killer for the sake of a white character's story. Hope. His treatment wasn't good at that point, especially going there with the only black male character we had.


Yet Madrox of all characters gets brought back and had a mini series dedicated to him. I can't imagine he's that phenomenal of a character. Hell using one of my former favs. Sabretooth. He WAS a good villain, and he WAS popular. Now he's one of the biggest losers in the X-verse. He is certainly not written as a serious character that anyone cares about, yet he can have his head cut off 3 times in the past year & keep coming back sucking up panel time being a useless jobber. But yet somehow Synch can't be brought back? Especially when Destiny is going to be showing up somewhere in HOX. I don't think Synch hasn't been referenced to since he was killed 20+ years ago. Monet loved him in GenX, he was killed and that was that. Meanwhile she had a bigger reaction to Madrox one-night standing her, and dying than she did Synch.

They'll revive or make use of what seem like some of the most obscure white characters who can't be that popular. But 99% of the black characters stay in limbo.


But they're weren't. One was white, the other was black. And it's the black guy who got the boot. Meanwhile there's about 5 Wolverines running around that nobody has gotten rid of yet, besides Mary Sue Logan aka Old Man Logan.



And many white character appear everywhere while black characters go in & out of limbo, except the queen of tokenism, Storm.

So again. there's more white characters that get great treatment than black characters, which there aren't many of, nor do they get treatment that's ever that good.

To bring up my classic example. If you complain the black guy always dies in horror films. Someone will argue "More white people got killed." Why is that? because it was more white people around in the first place & more to spare. Lets say you got 8 characters. 1 black, 1 Asian, and 6 white. The black & Asian characters get killed off. That's two minorities. Then 4 of the 6 white people get killed, plus the other white extras in the film. Sure that was more white people dying. But we still had more white people living too -when the final ones standing are the white characters, meanwhile all of the 2 minorities around were axed.

1-Popular characters come from good ideas, not for being pushed, no matter how hard you push some characters they aren't going to reach certain point. Superman was a genius idea at the right moment. You can push Hyperion or Sentry has hard as you want but they are never going to be Superman.

2-It kind of sucks what i'm going to tell you but I honestly believe Cyclops sells more than Storm, that could be the reason IMO. If it makes you feel better both Wolverine and Black Panther sell more than Cyclops.

3- Yet people recognize it was bad writting and out of character. It was also limited to one story. Cyclops has been deconstructed for an entire decade, his character was assasinated too. The boyscout, the good guy who was in love with Jean for decades, that guy? He sucks, he is evil, hittler, they made him mess up his marriage with a woman that he loved for decades. Nobody cared for Cyclops deconstruction. Writers and editors didn't care and Cyclops character is the one who carries that burden. He doesn't get the sympathy of "it was just one story and out of character", people think he is trash.

4-Madrox is more popular and interesting than Synch as easy as that. Race has nothing to do there. Vulcan or Sage for example are white and have been years on limbo.

5-I like Triagle and Elixir, they can co-exist but the more popular, developed and with more connections is Elixir. Some writers would like him more, even if there was another white healer, Elixir would probably still be the "main" healer".

6-White characters go to limbo all the time too. I'm a Flash fan, many of my favorite characters go to limbo constanly and they are white.

[Omega Alpha]

Honestly, as long as a character makes them money, I'm pretty sure Marvel likes every character. On the other hand, that doesn't necessarily apply to the people that make the books.

Exactly. Marvel dislikes no one. However, the creators and editors are another story. It's really hard to not see the "Cyclops gets killed off-panel and called Hitler and hated by his friends" and not see it as someone taking personally the fact most people sided with him in AvX and made all the big guns (and the creators and editors insisting he was wrong) look stupid.

[PoorStudent]

*Unpopular Opinion - Logan(Film) not as good as everyone says.

[CuteNimrod]

Exactly. Marvel dislikes no one. However, the creators and editors are another story. It's really hard to not see the "Cyclops gets killed off-panel and called Hitler and hated by his friends" and not see it as someone taking personally the fact most people sided with him in AvX and made all the big guns (and the creators and editors insisting he was wrong) look stupid.

Man, someone really hated Scott on Marvel.
Being killed off panel on an inhumans story was so freaking pathetic but then as if that wasn't enough everybody hates him. Not even his friends, family or younger self miss him, worse everybody compares him with motherfucking Hittler. His body and legacy degraded at every chance.
If that were any other character people would be offended.

[Tycon]

A character being deconstructed or called “Hitler” by other characters or a naive, impressionable teen time-displaced version of themself doesn’t mean that character is being character assassinated. Cyclops going from boy scout to revolutionary was very meticulously knitted together by many writers who could probably tell where Cyclops’ shaky foundation of Xavier’s morals would lead him.

Also another unpopular opinion but I think Cyclops was much more of a revolutionary during Utopia/Schism than when he started calling himself that after AvX.

[CuteNimrod]

A character being deconstructed or called “Hitler” by other characters or a naive, impressionable teen time-displaced version of themself doesn’t mean that character is being character assassinated. Cyclops going from boy scout to revolutionary was very meticulously knitted together by many writers who could probably tell where Cyclops’ shaky foundation of Xavier’s morals would lead him.

Also another unpopular opinion but I think Cyclops was much more of a revolutionary during Utopia/Schism than when he started calling himself that after AvX.

That is a nice perspective on both points but damm, the hittler thing really wasn't needed. I don't think that people who respect a character would do that to him/she/it.

[Silver Fang]

CuteNimrod
We'd have to agree to disagree.

At the end of the day, imo, it's clear ALL of the POC in the X-Men are given sub-par treatment. Meanwhile only SOME white characters are receiving it. There's plenty who aren't. Meanwhile there's not lots of POC in the X-Men and NONE of them get any real push -until recently given some of Hickman's books..I doubt they are all unpopular & can't sell. Again Creed isn't popular but for some reason, he's still around.

At the end of the day, media is dominated by straight white men, and that's the catered to demographic. So white stays prominent. Color stays a minor.

[Tycon]

That is a nice perspective on both points but damm, the hittler thing really wasn't needed. I don't think that people who respect a character would do that to him/she/it.

Oh yeah I totally agree. The “Hitler” thing deeeeefinitely was uncalled for, especially in an event where his side was being gassed. The whole analogy made zero sense, but I think that spoke more to the characters that were actually hurling those insults than Cyclops. Storm, Magik, Logan, etc demonizing Scott felt like the real character assassination whereas Scott and Emma getting justified revenge (sans IvX #6) yet getting constantly berated was more a punch to the gut for the fans.

I don’t think Paniccia and whoever else up top that were behind the conflict planned it out too well or made the sides balanced enough to justify vilifying someone that was just fighting extinction.

[spirit2011]

*Unpopular Opinion - Logan(Film) not as good as everyone says.

ok movie, bu tnot as good as people said

Honestly, as long as a character makes them money, I'm pretty sure Marvel likes every character. On the other hand, that doesn't necessarily apply to the people that make the books.

Well they could write him doing really bad things so they could write hi out of booka, but they choose not to do that.
X-men isn't a solo property, they could do without him just like they did with Jean