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  1. #1846
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Because it has defined the characters outside of comics for decades now, and was a massive disservice that made all of them look bad. Logan as the stalking creep, Jean as the tease that keeps pushing it, and Scott as the cockblocker to the cool guy.
    It's a misinpretation of what happened, it happens in all stories. At least it gave Jean a bit of edge

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    I mean it doesn't do the characters any favors, especially among casual fans that though it was something big (when in practice it really doesn't qualify as one), but they definitely gone through worst directions in universe, especially Wolverine and Cyclops.
    Casual fans barely read anything, I'm not sure why this matters at all
    Last edited by spirit2011; 08-11-2019 at 05:52 PM.

  2. #1847
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    It's a misinpretation of what happened, it happens in all stories. At least it gave Jean a bit of edge
    what edge did Jean get out of it?

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post

    Casual fans barely read anything, I'm not sure why this matters at all
    the triangle has been more of a thing in outlets that casual fans are more apt to know the characters. Thats why it matters

  3. #1848
    Sad & Brazilian PrezValentine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    The best thing that could have happened to Claremont would be Shooter shooting (get it?) down the Madelyne thing from the start; that way, Cyclops is either leading the team when Xavier has Magneto take over the school, give him extra reason to be mad about it and walk out, or he's with the Starjammers, meaning there's no leadership fight, no stupid retcon that introduced the triangle with Logan and Jean (the worst thing to happen to all 3 characters), nothing to stop him from getting together with Jean again, etc. And get him a co-writer around issue #200 or so would have been neat, even if unrealistic.
    I know Maddie has her fans, but I think she's the one character, just the one, where you can apply the sentence "this character is a mistake" literally. Plain and simple. Her existence is justified by the fact that Claremont wanted to have his cake and eat it too, because he needed to retire Scott to give Storm time to shine, but wanted to go through the route that made Scott look like he was completely obsessed with Jean and nothing else. If you asked me to choose one thing for Hickman to reboot out of canon, it would be Madelyne's existence. I'm glad they forgot Wood brought her back and hope nobody goes down that well again.
    Hunting's no fun when your prey doesn't move.

  4. #1849
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    It's a misinpretation of what happened, it happens in all stories. At least it gave Jean a bit of edge



    Casual fans barely read anything, I'm not sure why this matters at all
    I politely disagreed, but i leave it at that.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
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  5. #1850
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrezValentine View Post
    I know Maddie has her fans, but I think she's the one character, just the one, where you can apply the sentence "this character is a mistake" literally. Plain and simple. Her existence is justified by the fact that Claremont wanted to have his cake and eat it too, because he needed to retire Scott to give Storm time to shine, but wanted to go through the route that made Scott look like he was completely obsessed with Jean and nothing else. If you asked me to choose one thing for Hickman to reboot out of canon, it would be Madelyne's existence. I'm glad they forgot Wood brought her back and hope nobody goes down that well again.
    I feel the same, really she just make Scott look like a creep, that Inferno retcon made way too much sense (besides their relationship was anything but loving).
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
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  6. #1851
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Marvel should just have turn Maddie into Jean's reincarnation with amnesia, she wins her memories back and she returns to be Jean Grey again.
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  7. #1852
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Well, I like Maddie a lot. But I like her because of Inferno. So people saying "Omg Marvel ruined this random civillian love interest that for no reason looked exactly like her husband's dead girlfriend by actually creating an explanation for that and making her a great villain" always feels pretty ridiculous to me.

  8. #1853
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    Well, I like Maddie a lot. But I like her because of Inferno. So people saying "Omg Marvel ruined this random civillian love interest that for no reason looked exactly like her husband's dead girlfriend by actually creating an explanation for that and making her a great villain" always feels pretty ridiculous to me.
    I like her too but only before Jean's return, after that she became a symbol of everything that writers and editors could do wrong.
    My opinions are my own
    Sometimes I can express negative opinions about certain topics but It is never my intention to offend you.

  9. #1854
    Mighty Member TheDeadSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    I like her too but only before Jean's return, after that she became a symbol of everything that writers and editors could do wrong.
    It makes me wonder what was going on at Marvel if they then had the idea to make Peter a clone a few years later.
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  10. #1855
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDeadSpace View Post
    It makes me wonder what was going on at Marvel if they then had the idea to make Peter a clone a few years later.
    A combination of bad planning and bad decisions when they feel trapped in a corner, you should ask Iron Man fans hoe they feel about "The Crossing"
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
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  11. #1856
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    Marvel should just have turn Maddie into Jean's reincarnation with amnesia, she wins her memories back and she returns to be Jean Grey again.
    That would have erased Maddie and that would have been better.

    But then no Inferno was we know

  12. #1857
    Mighty Member TheDeadSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    A combination of bad planning and bad decisions when they feel trapped in a corner, you should ask Iron Man fans hoe they feel about "The Crossing"
    As a big Iron Man fan myself, I wasn't a fan at all. Who thought making Iron Man a villain only to be replaced by a younger version would work out? Although, I'm starting to see a trend here...
    "This is starting to sound like a bad comic book plot"
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  13. #1858
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDeadSpace View Post
    As a big Iron Man fan myself, I wasn't a fan at all. Who thought making Iron Man a villain only to be replaced by a younger version would work out? Although, I'm starting to see a trend here...
    Look it was 90s, Tony wasn't hip enough anymore, so the "too cool for school" remplacement was needed . Being serious, yeah it was bad, at least you can find some positive stuff in the Clone Saga, not so much in The Crossing. To be honest, writers got really weird in the 90s with some characthers, like Wolverine turning into a noseles beast or Punisher turning into a black guy.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
    Wolverine, Venom Annual # 1 (2018)
    Nobody does it better by Jeff Loveness

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  14. #1859
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    I like the concept of Madelyne but I don't think she's ever been used to her fullest potential. It honestly would just be easier to make her Jean's reincarnation, and give Jean that needed edge of being a badass "flatscan" for a while before her powers / memories would resurface in time for X-Factor. Inferno could be a story that centers entirely around Magik, who is ultimately the single character to come out of it with lasting consequences - bar maybe Cable but surely something could be done with him then as well.

    "I'll always love you, Jean Grey." "I'll always love you too, Scott Summers." - Scott Summers and Jean Grey

  15. #1860
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    what edge did Jean get out of it?
    Not really a edge, but another love interest that isn't Scott. And the whole "I shouldn't be attracted to this guy oops" that put a minor flaw

    the triangle has been more of a thing in outlets that casual fans are more apt to know the characters. Thats why it matters
    It's stronger on movies. I still don't get why it is so important to comics

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