Page 137 of 199 FirstFirst ... 3787127133134135136137138139140141147187 ... LastLast
Results 2,041 to 2,055 of 2976
  1. #2041
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    4,178

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Logan actions made some sense at the time, mostly for stuff that happened in Way's and Aaron's run with the character and considering that he wasn't personally close to Scott i can see him easily misinterpreting some of his actions. he was an hypocrite (and i'm pretty sure that he was aware of that), but i can see him getting to that conclusion, even if it doesn't justify his actions. My problem with that conflict was trying to paint his side as the one with the moral hight ground, that just take away any complexity about him.
    Let's be honest, Wolverine's complete justification for most of his actions was Scott's relationship with Jean.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  2. #2042
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    7,808

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    ???

    Beast and Xavier's worst acts EASILY eclipse the worst of Jean, Scott, Emma, or Logan.
    Beast nor Xavier assisted on sexual assault

  3. #2043
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Venezuela
    Posts
    6,720

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Let's be honest, Wolverine's complete justification for most of his actions was Scott's relationship with Jean.
    If you actually read his solo, no it wasn't, it was clear that his experiences with Romulus and The Red Right Hand affected his decisions, it probably was a factor but at some point, but not the main one.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
    Wolverine, Venom Annual # 1 (2018)
    Nobody does it better by Jeff Loveness

    "I am Thou, Thou Art I"
    Persona

  4. #2044
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    10,247

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    If you actually read his solo, no it wasn't, it was clear that his experiences with Romulus and The Red Right Hand affected his decisions, it probably was a factor but at some point, but not the main one.
    The Right Red Hand especially put him through the wringer. Setting everything up. only for the end reveal to be that they commited suicide to prevent Logan from having any closure by doing it himself, and then to reveal that the guards he slaughtered to get to them were all his kids, and had been chosen and outfitted with the full knowledge of who they were? That's a level of hate that even the most truly evil villains in comics have difficulty matching.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  5. #2045
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    14,951

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Beast nor Xavier assisted on sexual assault
    Xavier had sex with his mental patient

  6. #2046
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Venezuela
    Posts
    6,720

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    The Right Red Hand especially put him through the wringer. Setting everything up. only for the end reveal to be that they commited suicide to prevent Logan from having any closure by doing it himself, and then to reveal that the guards he slaughtered to get to them were all his kids, and had been chosen and outfitted with the full knowledge of who they were? That's a level of hate that even the most truly evil villains in comics have difficulty matching.
    Daken was also a big factor, not only did he set up the death of his half brothers, but when Logan discovered him and saw the details of his life, he was left pretty shaken by it. Maybe i should add Laura there.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
    Wolverine, Venom Annual # 1 (2018)
    Nobody does it better by Jeff Loveness

    "I am Thou, Thou Art I"
    Persona

  7. #2047
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    7,808

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Xavier had sex with his mental patient
    Well never mind. I guess it is only Beast then

  8. #2048
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    4,178

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Beast nor Xavier assisted on sexual assault
    Emma didn't kill over 100 billion people. Charles and Hank did.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  9. #2049
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    10,247

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Xavier had sex with his mental patient
    Plus he did something pretty close to it to Dani, in a manner that didn't include any consent. Not sure how in control Xavier was due to retconitis, but at the time I think it was supposed to be his own dark side manifesting on its own - the damage of the Dark Phoenix Saga, except no outside force was involved, and Charles didn't suffer even a fraction of the consequences.

    The reaction of the re-read at waiting for the trade was "Why is it bad that Scott killed this guy again?" Not by me, by the person who runs the site.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  10. #2050

    Default

    I feel like I started something or definitely contributed to it. This is starting to break down into a battle about who was the worst person in the X-Books.

    I would say the most morally conflicted person in X-Books is Forge. He was so selfish and self-interested that he actually built a weapon to take away a mutants powers and then it ended up getting used on Storm. He summoned a Demon in a middle of the Vietnam war using his own unit's dying soldiers as a sacrifice catalyst, just so he could take down the enemy. That same Demon he summoned nearly destroyed the world and he had to use the souls of the X-Men to close the gateway into the Demon's dimension. The only reason that the X-Men survived at all was because Roma saved them at the very last moment. Forge is a perfect example of a character where the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

  11. #2051
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    4,129

    Default

    Forge should be Shaman, and bipolar.

  12. #2052
    Mighty Member uebersoldat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    1,199

    Default

    I think I'm pretty much done with the X-Men in the comics. Everyone is so excited about Hockitty-Pockitty and I'm reading it going....oooookaaaay. This is a nice alt-verse storyline but this is ...616? What the hell? I don't care how well it's written (Hickman is good), the direction is just weird and alien and I'm just so tired, exhausted and bone-weary of all these massive universe-altering X-Men changes.

    I've accepted the fact that all I care about is pre-Morrison X-Men. I realize I'll never get those X-Men back. I'll just stay in the past and those will be my X-Men memories even as an old man on my death bed, you guys can have whatever ....this.... is these days. The only thing that had me hangin' on lately was Mr. & Mrs. X.

    Good riddance ueber yeah yeah I know. Peace.

  13. #2053
    mutant and proud ermac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    347

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    Unpopular opinion
    For some reason people really like to exaggerate anything Xavier or Beast do and not even the worst of them can't top things done by fan favorites like Emma, Cyclops, Wolverine or even Jean.
    That's interesting. I wonder what were the worst acts of each of them in your opinion.

    Xavier - maybe Deadly Genesis? mindwiping his own students to forget he sent four kids to their death (one of them related to his student). there's Danger and Onslaught too.

    Beast - a tie between committing genocide against the Skrulls and endangering the timestream on a petty vengeance

    Emma - blowing up a horse? or I guess probably mind-controlling mutants for survival, as she did with Anole recently

    Logan - could be harassing Jean or letting Juggernaut beat Peter or gutting and abandoning Rachel or slashing Hope or killing his own children

    Scott - using children as killers on X-Force? falling to the temptations of the Phoenix?

    Jean - considering she wasn't the Phoenix (cocoon and all), I'd say... not giving a fck about Rachel? being violent towards Emma on Morrison's run?
    Kind of hoping to see Madame Frost, Ambassador of Krakoa, humiliating Mr. President of Brazil during a UN meeting

    I'm reading: Batman - Daredevil - East of West - Friendly Neighborhood Spiderman - Immortal Hulk - Runaways

  14. #2054
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    275

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    Plus he did something pretty close to it to Dani, in a manner that didn't include any consent. Not sure how in control Xavier was due to retconitis, but at the time I think it was supposed to be his own dark side manifesting on its own - the damage of the Dark Phoenix Saga, except no outside force was involved, and Charles didn't suffer even a fraction of the consequences.

    The reaction of the re-read at waiting for the trade was "Why is it bad that Scott killed this guy again?" Not by me, by the person who runs the site.
    You mean this episode. Yes, Charles Xavier wasn't himself.

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Emma didn't kill over 100 billion people. Charles and Hank did.
    May I have the reference, please?

    For the sake of drama, authors tend to go to the oppposite: he is virtous, well not so much, she is courageous, well not really…

    I fail to see how the failures of some characters clear the other's bad actions, or justify the harm that can be done to them. Paint them in black and throw them to the wolves?

    Maybe Mr. Wilde was right:
    Morality is simply the attitude we adopt towards people whom we personally dislike.
    If I offended you, be assured that it wasn't my intention. English is not my first language.

  15. #2055

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ermac View Post
    That's interesting. I wonder what were the worst acts of each of them in your opinion.

    Xavier - maybe Deadly Genesis? mindwiping his own students to forget he sent four kids to their death (one of them related to his student). there's Danger and Onslaught too.

    Beast - a tie between committing genocide against the Skrulls and endangering the timestream on a petty vengeance

    Emma - blowing up a horse? or I guess probably mind-controlling mutants for survival, as she did with Anole recently

    Logan - could be harassing Jean or letting Juggernaut beat Peter or gutting and abandoning Rachel or slashing Hope or killing his own children

    Scott - using children as killers on X-Force? falling to the temptations of the Phoenix?

    Jean - considering she wasn't the Phoenix (cocoon and all), I'd say... not giving a fck about Rachel? being violent towards Emma on Morrison's run?
    I think it depends on the favorites of the individual. But hey, thanks for remembering my girl Rachel and how Logan and Jean kind of screw Rachel over, try to kill Rachel (Logan), or let her be kidnapped, tortured, and enslaved by Mojo (Logan) and Ahab (Jean) all the time. Although, I personally think Jean's behaviour to Rachel is simply writer fail because the writer is completely incapable about writing a Mother and a Daughter in a scene together, so said writer just ignores the relationship completely because it makes his head hurt thinking a mother might actually care about her daughter.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •