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  1. #2206
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    I smell an opportunity to drink contrarian soup.

    Nightcrawler? Fuck Nightcrawler. A blue, fuzzy X-Men character? Wow, real original there, pal. Blending in shadows? Oh, cool power! TOO BAD HE NEVER USES IT! Mutant teleporter? Illyana laughs. She's got goth + RPG protag energy, what does Nightcrawler got? Weird feet, I sleep. Wolverine's ride or die homie? Makes sense, can't find friends his own age. Got a tail, huh? Can he whack people with it? Not really? TRASH! What's Nightcrawler wearing today? Oh. Another red vest. Cool. Circus background? Why? Cuz he's a clown?

    no but for real nightcrawler is funny, prominent, wholesome, and still suffers a lot so there's no reason not to love him
    except when writers phoneticize the accent
    Our main character, a socially awkward outcast, gains newfound confidence and arrogance before committing a string of horrid acts. He then wears a fancy suit and proceeds to dance like a maniac to music that isn't actually there playing around him.

  2. #2207
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Kurt is up there with Colossus in the eternally likable X-characters.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  3. #2208
    Astonishing Member Beetle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    with Colossus in the eternally likable X-characters.
    This is a controversial opinion right?

  4. #2209
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beetle View Post
    This is a controversial opinion right?
    Outside of really poor writings from Guggs, Colossus has been a nice fun guy for the team.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  5. #2210
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    Quote Originally Posted by houndsofluv View Post
    I feel like we can move past the cookie cutter desgnations of hero or villain anyways, the stories and characters should definitely be more complex than that
    I think this is why they're usually referred to as rogues. Magneto is an X-Men rogue because he deviates from their mission, which causes problems with the team.

  6. #2211
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    I don't believe he is a villain. I should have made that clear


    But he is definitely the X-men most iconic antagonist by far. The fact that he is seen as heroic by many gives the X-men themselves some deep and questions to their cause.
    What is a villain exactly? Someone who do evil things without any remorse? Most of time, Magneto isn't a villain anymore. Claremont made him like this.

    However most of time authors are interested by this character as a morally very grey one. He is one who says: "I do what is needed and I have the right to do so because all the sufferings I went through." Well, most of the terrorists that are so despised could say the same thing. You can always justify the things you want to do by a speech more or less logical. But I see why he can be viewed like a 'liberating' character: he doesn't let himself constrained by a lot of moral.

    I like him but I don't let him have a free pass with everything he did.
    If I offended you, be assured that it wasn't my intention. English is not my first language.

  7. #2212
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    What is a villain exactly? Someone who do evil things without any remorse? Most of time, Magneto isn't a villain anymore. Claremont made him like this.

    However most of time authors are interested by this character as a morally very grey one. He is one who says: "I do what is needed and I have the right to do so because all the sufferings I went through." Well, most of the terrorists that are so despised could say the same thing. You can always justify the things you want to do by a speech more or less logical. But I see why he can be viewed like a 'liberating' character: he doesn't let himself constrained by a lot of moral.

    I like him but I don't let him have a free pass with everything he did.
    Yeah, that's how i feel about Magneto, my view of him tends to be one of a tragic villain, i genuely feel bad about his situation, but he also has done to many unforgivable things to ever consider him a good guy, even if he hasn't done nothing stricly villanous since 2001.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
    Wolverine, Venom Annual # 1 (2018)
    Nobody does it better by Jeff Loveness

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  8. #2213
    Sad & Brazilian PrezValentine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    I don't know if this is the correct place to say this...
    isn't it weird that nobody hates Nightcrawler?
    All characters have haters and people talking bad about them but not Kurt.

    (I love him)
    There's nothing to hate about Kurt, if you think about it.

    It's funny, but also interesting that, somehow, Kurt never needed some controversial (we pretend here Draco never EVER existed) arc to give him a new direction or change the perception about him. He's an unique case, in which he's a wholesome character that might have some flaws, but really works and maybe always will. I think the fact that he's unique in that sense is what makes him work indeed. If there was another one like him, I'm not sure it would have the same effect.
    Hunting's no fun when your prey doesn't move.

  9. #2214
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrezValentine View Post
    There's nothing to hate about Kurt, if you think about it.

    It's funny, but also interesting that, somehow, Kurt never needed some controversial (we pretend here Draco never EVER existed) arc to give him a new direction or change the perception about him. He's an unique case, in which he's a wholesome character that might have some flaws, but really works and maybe always will. I think the fact that he's unique in that sense is what makes him work indeed. If there was another one like him, I'm not sure it would have the same effect.
    Kurt is simply, the best bro that any person could ask for, is almost impossible hate him. There is a reason for why he was the first X-Man that Logan took a liking for (in a platonic sense) and is in good terms with most of the team.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
    Wolverine, Venom Annual # 1 (2018)
    Nobody does it better by Jeff Loveness

    "I am Thou, Thou Art I"
    Persona

  10. #2215
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Now I'm jealous. Imagine how much healthy the fandom would be if Marvel cared even a little about other characters being likeable as they do to Kurt.

    With all the others debates are always about who is a worst person.

  11. #2216
    Sad & Brazilian PrezValentine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Kurt is simply, the best bro that any person could ask for, is almost impossible hate him. There is a reason for why he was the first X-Man that Logan took a liking for (in a platonic sense) and is in good terms with most of the team.
    He's also a guy who has every reason to be hateful or angry.

    He was as an outcast due to his physical appearance. The first time we see him, he's being chased with pitchforks and torches. And yet, he chooses to be a loving person, a good friend and someone who fights for what's right.

    It would make for a boring story if everyone was like Kurt and it's certainly unfair to expect everyone to be like him. Not everyone reacts to the world in the same way. But Kurt is a genuinely good person, despite what the world tried to make of him, and that's why all of us, and the X-Men, love him.
    Hunting's no fun when your prey doesn't move.

  12. #2217
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    Yeah, it's impossible to hate Kurt.

    I dare to say that his death in Second Coming was because with him being alive something like Schism could never have happened. He would have invited Scott and Logan to drink a beer all three together and everything would have been arranged by talking.

  13. #2218
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    Yeah, it's impossible to hate Kurt.

    I dare to say that his death in Second Coming was because with him being alive something like Schism could never have happened. He would have invited Scott and Logan to drink a beer all three together and everything would have been arranged by talking.
    Considering how forced Schism was in the first place, I'm sure they would have found a way. It's not like Marvel has ever been above writing someone completely OOC in order to railroad the plot they want.
    Still hoping for that Helix Reunion...

    The New X-Men: Can't let you grow up because you make everyone look old. But we can sure as @#$% mindlessly kill you off for shock value!


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  14. #2219
    Mighty Member psylurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    Considering how forced Schism was in the first place, I'm sure they would have found a way. It's not like Marvel has ever been above writing someone completely OOC in order to railroad the plot they want.
    Hard to disagree with this. I think Jean's voice would have been a loud one though had she been around for Schism, and Claremont's Storm would have zapped both Logan and Scott into tomorrow, of course.

  15. #2220
    Incredible Member kevinism's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Outside of really poor writings from Guggs, Colossus has been a nice fun guy for the team.
    I've always thought of him as the dull crybaby

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