Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[Dark-Jacket]

D-J is just the latest trumpet for the Morrison hate parade.

While Morrison's NXM was polarizing, I REALLY think the driving force from the last 20 years has been the M-Day/198 mandate. It was weird and sloppy and resulted in everything we're bitching about. Just prior to that the X-Men were in relative good shape, being driven by Whedon's "Astonishing" and Claremont's XSE storyline continuation. New ideas and obscure locations were being explored, classics were returning, and everything was colorful. It was M-Day that drained the life out of the books.

To be honest, I've actually liked Morrison in pretty much every comics I read from him but NXM is the only one I've come to dislike.

In what way? Why?

Because he opened the door to a lot of stuff we've come to hate in the comics.

* Characters derailement assassination : Everybody took a level in jerkass and cyclops or Xavier never really got better after the Morrison era.
* Mutant Genocide : By killing 16 millions mutants in his first issue and by having the school being this huge it gave the idea that 1/ there was too many mutants for it to be manageable 2/ it's okay to kill/depower mutants it worked with Grant. M-Day is a direct consequence of NXM.
* Thou shall kill : Xavier having a gun to headshot people, Cyclops giving a mercy kill coldly... the x-men became soldiers.
* Darkness induced audience apathy : though there are numerous fun moments and bright spots, the comics was devoided of joy or personnal interraction outside of Emma/Scott/Jean/Logan. Beast biggest moments are faking a coming out and getting pummeled by beak. The aesop of the whole run seems to be 'it's okay to make out on your dead's wife grave, it'll save the world".

I'm aware not everything is Morrison's fault though, there was a lot of editorial mendate and I should have phrase I don't like his run, not the guy. ^^"

[PsychoEFrost]

D-J is just the latest trumpet for the Morrison hate parade.

While Morrison's NXM was polarizing, I REALLY think the driving force from the last 20 years has been the M-Day/198 mandate. It was weird and sloppy and resulted in everything we're bitching about. Just prior to that the X-Men were in relative good shape, being driven by Whedon's "Astonishing" and Claremont's XSE storyline continuation. New ideas and obscure locations were being explored, classics were returning, and everything was colorful. It was M-Day that drained the life out of the books.

I agree with this. M-Day is what caused the major issues everyone complains about. X-Men being soldiers in an unwinnable war? Check. X-Men forced to go after each other because of hard, desperate decisions? Check. X-Men on the brink of extinction every few issues? Check.

[spirit2011]

To be honest, I've actually liked Morrison in pretty much every comics I read from him but NXM is the only one I've come to dislike.



Because he opened the door to a lot of stuff we've come to hate in the comics.

* Characters derailement assassination : Everybody took a level in jerkass and cyclops or Xavier never really got better after the Morrison era.
* Mutant Genocide : By killing 16 millions mutants in his first issue and by having the school being this huge it gave the idea that 1/ there was too many mutants for it to be manageable 2/ it's okay to kill/depower mutants it worked with Grant. M-Day is a direct consequence of NXM.
* Thou shall kill : Xavier having a gun to headshot people, Cyclops giving a mercy kill coldly... the x-men became soldiers.
* Darkness induced audience apathy : though there are numerous fun moments and bright spots, the comics was devoided of joy or personnal interraction outside of Emma/Scott/Jean/Logan. Beast biggest moments are faking a coming out and getting pummeled by beak. The aesop of the whole run seems to be 'it's okay to make out on your dead's wife grave, it'll save the world".

I'm aware not everything is Morrison's fault though, there was a lot of editorial mendate and I should have phrase I don't like his run, not the guy. ^^"

There wasn't editorial mandates. Morrison got to run free of it, when they started to interfere he quit and went to write batman comics.

Morrison introduced darkness, edginess and cinism to the franchise. It really marked post Morrison era.
what was the last time x-men seemed like friends and a family? this has been a long time.

Faking a come out while not writing a lGBT character was the peak of Morrisonism.

It was even PEAKER than just just treat women as interchangeable , killing one to get onother on her place. while women in regrigerators is a c'mon trope, faking come outs aren't and the broad way Morrison treated being gay is terrible.

M-day was just finishing the Genosha thing, but there wasn't that many mutants left.

[CRaymond]

I'd say the Genosha destruction from Morrison's run was "fixing" the terrible idea of giving Magneto a mutant homeland in the "Magneto Wars".

[spirit2011]

I'd say the Genosha destruction from Morrison's run was "fixing" the terrible idea of giving Magneto a mutant homeland in the "Magneto Wars".

That actually was interesting

[Dark-Jacket]

That actually was interesting

I agree.

A slight correction, Morrison had to compose with editors, like, he couldn't use Colossus so he created secondary mutations.
Just remembered while reading the DC board that though I loved Morrison run on JLA. He basically created the batgod we have now. Another annoying consequence. :/

[spirit2011]

I agree.

A slight correction, Morrison had to compose with editors, like, he couldn't use Colossus so he created secondary mutations.
Just remembered while reading the DC board that though I loved Morrison run on JLA. He basically created the batgod we have now. Another annoying consequence. :/

it is called restrictions, not editorial interferece and it was before the book drop. happens a lot, character not availiable. Colossus was just killed, but he return just after Morrison.
JLA was a really good run, but yes the batgod sucks. Also what he did with Talia sucked even more

[phoenixzero23]

I'd say the Genosha destruction from Morrison's run was "fixing" the terrible idea of giving Magneto a mutant homeland in the "Magneto Wars".

I think giving Magneto a country was a mistake but destroying Genosha was another mistake too. It would have been so interesting to have an stable mutant nation being part of the Marvel universe, instead now we have (and will continue to have) different short lived mutant nations that don't go anywhere.
Having one stablished for long could be interesting.

[Dark-Jacket]

Why do you think it was a mistake ?

[phoenixzero23]

Why do you think it was a mistake ?

Giving Magneto a country or destroying genosha?
If it is for Magneto, I think it was interesting for a while but not something that i would like as a permanent development for the character. Someone else could have took care of it and leave Magneto as the underdog always fighting an losing battle.

[PsychoEFrost]

Why do you think it was a mistake ?

I personally disliked it because it basically embraced the idea that the only way equality can happen is through separate but equal segregation. Making all the mutants live by themselves away from the rest of society goes against what the books have always been advocating for.

[PoorStudent]

I agree and also disagree to an extent. I think Morrision did a lot of cool things with his run and was at least ambitious enough to not just rely on retelling the x-men greatest hits, but his character work made a lot of the heroes unlikable. Edgy or Cleverness was a good substitute for mature or adult writing. I think Ultimate X-men did the same thing. Everyone had attitude and sass, regardless of their personality. I think this type of writing influenced comics from that era, whereas decompression/dialogue bendis type storytelling influenced everything after. I don't know what were at now.

Too add to the discourse:
Unpopular Opinion:
I did not like Whedon's Astonishing X-men. His Portrayal of Kitty and Colossus was great, but everything else felt like Morrision lite. Ord was a stupid villain and really really stupid looking villain.

250px-Ord_of_the_Breakworld.jpg

[lurkerforyears]

To be honest, I've actually liked Morrison in pretty much every comics I read from him but NXM is the only one I've come to dislike.



Because he opened the door to a lot of stuff we've come to hate in the comics.

* Characters derailement assassination : Everybody took a level in jerkass and cyclops or Xavier never really got better after the Morrison era.
* Mutant Genocide : By killing 16 millions mutants in his first issue and by having the school being this huge it gave the idea that 1/ there was too many mutants for it to be manageable 2/ it's okay to kill/depower mutants it worked with Grant. M-Day is a direct consequence of NXM.
* Thou shall kill : Xavier having a gun to headshot people, Cyclops giving a mercy kill coldly... the x-men became soldiers.
* Darkness induced audience apathy : though there are numerous fun moments and bright spots, the comics was devoided of joy or personnal interraction outside of Emma/Scott/Jean/Logan. Beast biggest moments are faking a coming out and getting pummeled by beak. The aesop of the whole run seems to be 'it's okay to make out on your dead's wife grave, it'll save the world".

I'm aware not everything is Morrison's fault though, there was a lot of editorial mendate and I should have phrase I don't like his run, not the guy. ^^"

I could ask the opposite, how many decades of the xmen living happy together like a family playing softball do you need?
the period of time in which the xmen were Morrison's New Xmen, X-Statix, District X, Tieri's Weapon X and Deadpool, the Emma Frost and Mystique minis, was very good in terms of quality. The only real stinker was Austen, who was the most traditional one.

And we have had some happy family xmen in the last decade, the issue is we had that in terrible forgettable comics, like xmen gold, or even in that Aaron Wolverine and the XMen book that was a zany quirky comedy with hellfire club little children as villains.

[CRaymond]

I personally disliked it because it basically embraced the idea that the only way equality can happen is through separate but equal segregation. Making all the mutants live by themselves away from the rest of society goes against what the books have always been advocating for.

This. It was a shit version of Israel/Pakistan nation-building with an anti-integration doctrine. Magneto should’ve failed Genosha, because hard segregationist agendas are failures.

[Dark-Jacket]

I could ask the opposite, how many decades of the xmen living happy together like a family playing softball do you need?
the period of time in which the xmen were Morrison's New Xmen, X-Statix, District X, Tieri's Weapon X and Deadpool, the Emma Frost and Mystique minis, was very good in terms of quality. The only real stinker was Austen, who was the most traditional one.

And we have had some happy family xmen in the last decade, the issue is we had that in terrible forgettable comics, like xmen gold, or even in that Aaron Wolverine and the XMen book that was a zany quirky comedy with hellfire club little children as villains.

X-men never lived happy together and family played softball for long.
Original run, death of Xavier they had to graduate
ANAD Death of Phoenix and Thunderbird.
Days of Future past and Mutant Massacre right after that
Inferno
Legacy Virus...

X-men has never been a happy comics, they couldn't catch a break in the long term. BUT, they had little moments, breather period or issues where they could recollect, rekindle, mature, grow, love, hate, argue. I've started X-men with the classic around the first arcade encounter I read through to the outback period. Remember that moment where kurt and logan teased Kitty and we had a monologue from kurt contemplating on his behaviour and trying to be better ? Or when Dazzler and Rogue where fighting over Longshot while Colossus was painting Psylocke ? Storm crying over her dead garden because of Calisto ? Those are little human moments which have disappeared from the comics. Characters are just here to serve a plot. They are not fleshed out anymore they just are. I quit reading because in the end, they were no victories, only failures after failures and jerkass arguing with each other just for the sake of it.

I agree and also disagree to an extent. I think Morrision did a lot of cool things with his run and was at least ambitious enough to not just rely on retelling the x-men greatest hits, but his character work made a lot of the heroes unlikable. Edgy or Cleverness was a good substitute for mature or adult writing. I think Ultimate X-men did the same thing. Everyone had attitude and sass, regardless of their personality. I think this type of writing influenced comics from that era, whereas decompression/dialogue bendis type storytelling influenced everything after. I don't know what were at now.

I agree with you, there was a lot of cool stuff in his run (the special class, Quentin Quire, Weapon Plus) but a lot of character assassination (literally with poor Darkstar) and in the end, it would have been better as a Ultimate title.

Giving Magneto a country or destroying genosha?
If it is for Magneto, I think it was interesting for a while but not something that i would like as a permanent development for the character. Someone else could have took care of it and leave Magneto as the underdog always fighting an losing battle.

A mutant country which would have rejected both Xavier and Magneto could have been interesting.

I personally disliked it because it basically embraced the idea that the only way equality can happen is through separate but equal segregation. Making all the mutants live by themselves away from the rest of society goes against what the books have always been advocating for.

I agree with you, the whole concept didn't have time to really be established to show how it doesn't work. (remember Tyroc, guys xD) was it specified at this point Magneto was right ?