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  1. #2821
    Extraordinary Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfhammer View Post
    Dealing with and resolving aren't the same thing. You can tell by the astonishing lack of resolution to the problems in a number of relationships, mostly Scott and everyone and Emma and everyone. I mean Hickman didn't even bother to address the whole Scott\Charles thing. I think above all the other interpersonal issues, leaving that unaddressed was unforgivable.
    Maybe, but I don't see how it's Hickman's fault- Marvel knew he was coming for more than a year, and knew what his story was, they could have addressed that, but instead chose to spend 6 months in an alternate reality, while also having Rosenberg's gorefest.

  2. #2822
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfhammer View Post
    Dealing with and resolving aren't the same thing. You can tell by the astonishing lack of resolution to the problems in a number of relationships, mostly Scott and everyone and Emma and everyone. I mean Hickman didn't even bother to address the whole Scott\Charles thing. I think above all the other interpersonal issues, leaving that unaddressed was unforgivable.
    We already know that X-Men # 1 starts with a flashback in with young Cyclops and Charles. Not everything has to be in HOX / POX, it can be explored later. https://www.bleedingcool.com/wp-cont...8/img_0503.jpg

  3. #2823
    Extraordinary Member Silver Fang's Avatar
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    I do think people familiar with Hickman pointed out he was no good at developing personal relationships. He focuses on plot & events, and the characters' personal relationships aren't a focus.

    I think Cannonball was married in Avengers, but it was stated that it was an off-panel relationship that was introduced as is & not much time spent on build-up.

    That being the case, it's not shock we just skipped ahead with all characters being ok with each other (except Creed) and nobody having any problems. May have to wait until Dawn of X before any relationships get proper focus.

    BUT like Omega said, Hickman has had his stuff in place for over a year, and the X-Office knew this but decided to waste 6 months on filler and Rosenberg rather than letting legit X-titles continue, tie up lose ends, and address or give closure to relationships proper, so that things wouldn't have seemed like such a leap going into Hickman's era.
    Last edited by Silver Fang; 10-04-2019 at 03:27 PM.

  4. #2824
    Braddock Isle JB's Avatar
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    Ultimately, with a 12-issue mini that has the intention of creating a whole new status quo and direction, things are going to have to be skipped over. But as Silver Fang said, we'll have to see what goes on in Dawn of X.

    And for what it's worth, I found the scenes of Charles and Erik bringing Emma into the fold some of the best the characters have ever sounded.
    Last edited by JB; 10-04-2019 at 03:41 PM.
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  5. #2825
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    I liked Hickman's character work in both FF and Avengers.

  6. #2826
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    The one ignoring things is you. Just because the xmen posed before wasting the sentinels doesn't undo years of them undermining and trying to kill each other.
    For the eightieth time: Logan and Scott patched things up well before that. They've all interacted many times since Schism. Nobody wanted Emma and Scott dead. Can you admit that? Get over it.

  7. #2827
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    For the eightieth time: Logan and Scott patched things up well before that. They've all interacted many times since Schism. Nobody wanted Emma and Scott dead. Can you admit that? Get over it.
    What about Xavier and Cyclops? last time they saw each other they weren't on the same team and now they are acting like father/son. I like them but i feel they definitely needed to talk.
    Something as big as that was ignored and that feels wrong.
    Last edited by phoenixzero23; 10-04-2019 at 04:18 PM.

  8. #2828
    BANNED spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    For the eightieth time: Logan and Scott patched things up well before that. They've all interacted many times since Schism. Nobody wanted Emma and Scott dead. Can you admit that? Get over it.
    Lots of mutants wanted Emma dead on las Uncanny

  9. #2829
    Astonishing Member Ulfhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Maybe, but I don't see how it's Hickman's fault- Marvel knew he was coming for more than a year, and knew what his story was, they could have addressed that, but instead chose to spend 6 months in an alternate reality, while also having Rosenberg's gorefest.
    Don't worry. I'm happy to blame both parties for poor planning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    We already know that X-Men # 1 starts with a flashback in with young Cyclops and Charles. Not everything has to be in HOX / POX, it can be explored later. https://www.bleedingcool.com/wp-cont...8/img_0503.jpg
    Do we know where that flashback is set in continuity? If could just be any of the million times Scott and Charles talked over the years.

    I agree that some things can be explored later sure. Charles death at Scott's hands, and the associated fallout, has had a far reaching impact on the X-men for a number of years. It seems like a little too big of a deal to shuffle off months or years down the road. Perhaps the answer would reveal more than Hickman is willing to at this point. The net result is that coming out of the last decade of story lines, culminating with Rosencanny then going straight into this book is putting readers in the hospital with whiplash.

  10. #2830
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    What about Xavier and Cyclops? last time they saw each other they weren't on the same team and now they are acting like father/son. I like them but i feel they definitely needed to talk.
    Something as big as that was ignored and that feels wrong.
    First scene in the entire story is Xavier resurrecting Scott, mirroring Scott killing Xavier. Im sure if you put some effort into it you can see how that resolves their prior conflict.

  11. #2831
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    First scene in the entire story is Xavier resurrecting Scott, mirroring Scott killing Xavier. Im sure if you put some effort into it you can see how that resolves their prior conflict.
    I know it means they are okay. But still feels rushed

  12. #2832
    BANNED spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Fang View Post
    I do think people familiar with Hickman pointed out he was no good at developing personal relationships. He focuses on plot & events, and the characters' personal relationships aren't a focus.

    I think Cannonball was married in Avengers, but it was stated that it was an off-panel relationship that was introduced as is & not much time spent on build-up.

    That being the case, it's not shock we just skipped ahead with all characters being ok with each other (except Creed) and nobody having any problems. May have to wait until Dawn of X before any relationships get proper focus.

    BUT like Omega said, Hickman has had his stuff in place for over a year, and the X-Office knew this but decided to waste 6 months on filler and Rosenberg rather than letting legit X-titles continue, tie up lose ends, and address or give closure to relationships proper, so that things wouldn't have seemed like such a leap going into Hickman's era.
    But how would these writers know what Hickman would do? He was preparing these books for over a year, but they were written recently, that is why the covers doesn't match much of the content.

    The reason of the filler is probably to not crash with Hickman plans.

    Creed is the coco glenn of x-men hahahah.

    If already solved on hoxpox why would he return to these on dawn of X?

    I blame more the several past editors for avoiding solving the problem and postponing

  13. #2833
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    What tension would Cyclops and Xavier even have? I wouldn’t expect Xavier to be the type to hold a serious grudge against Scott for killing him while possessed by the Phoenix. He’s already known that a similar scenario/confrontation with the Phoenix Five was gonna happen via Moira revealing Life 4 to him. And as long as Xavier was completely transparent in his plans along with taking a more radical stance on mutant rights (especially after Age of X-Man/Rosencanny), his appeal to Scott would’ve been more than enough.

  14. #2834
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    Xavier probably let himself be killed by Scott because he knew events needed to happen that led to Tempus and Goldballs activating their mutant gene.

  15. #2835
    Astonishing Member Ulfhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    What tension would Cyclops and Xavier even have? I wouldn’t expect Xavier to be the type to hold a serious grudge against Scott for killing him while possessed by the Phoenix. He’s already known that a similar scenario/confrontation with the Phoenix Five was gonna happen via Moira revealing Life 4 to him. And as long as Xavier was completely transparent in his plans along with taking a more radical stance on mutant rights (especially after Age of X-Man/Rosencanny), his appeal to Scott would’ve been more than enough.
    If that’s how it played out fine. Hickman didn’t bother to show us that, or anything else related to setting the current status quo. Evidently he thought we’d prefer mutant symbology, or everything being explained twice, to actual character interaction.

    Don’t get me wrong. I think he’s done some interesting things with the X-Men. That said, if he thinks he can write the X-men successfully over the long term without dialing in the character elements, he’s going to get a rude awakening.

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