Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[Havok83]

How this for a controversial opinion: the X books were better when Jean, Cyclops, Wolverine and Xavier were dead, and would have been even better if Magneto and a few villains had joined them. There were better stories told with them gone, and there was much more potential without them. Letting the writers cheat with the teen O5 and Old Man Logan was a huge mistake.

yethats very controversial as the Terrigen era is regarded as one of the worst era in X-history. The books were at their absolute low point and its never been that bad before

[Harpsikord]

For me, I feel her death heightens the anxieties of the characters left alive. X-Men is best when it's a group of characters walking on thin ice, haunted by regrets and terrified of making the wrong move that will result in DOFP. With Jean alive, they seem to feel stronger and full of hubris. Her absence makes them weaker and less confident... and far more compelling.

Frankly, this is what Thunderbird I is for, not Jean Grey. I think that the X-Men as a collective are strongest when Jean is alive - because she's an irreplaceable part of their core and at their heart, the X-Men are supposed to be about a resilient family-esque group overcoming extreme adversity. The X-Men are better when they are all alive and when they are all being written well together; one of my favorite eras of X-Books is when all three of Uncanny, X-Factor, and New Mutants had their own identities when the X-Men were in the Outback. The team was incredibly strong (narratively) various times throughout the 90s.

And Morrison's X-Men will always be one of my favorite runs.

The quality dips severely in retrospect once we get to Decimation and it doesn't really start to recover until at least X-Men Red, which wouldn't have happened without Jean Grey.

[phoenixzero23]

yethats very controversial as the Terrigen era is regarded as one of the worst era in X-history. The books were at their absolute low point and its never been that bad before

The terrigen era was bad indeed but we still had Logan, Jean and Cyclops, just on different ages.

I wonder what would happen if they and Emma were totally gone for a few years, how would the x-men change, who would rise to prominence?
Everything would be so different (not sure if for the better or worse but different)

[Havok83]

The terrigen era was bad indeed but we still had Logan, Jean and Cyclops, just on different ages.

I wonder what would happen if they and Emma were totally gone for a few years, how would the x-men change, who would rise to prominence?
Everything would be so different (not sure if for the better or worse but different)

Not really as those were all treated as different characters. OML was different from an AR and Scott and Jean were teased as being that as well. All of them were supporting characters, reacting to the T-era and not driving it the way their main counterparts do with stories when they are around. OML, Teen Scott and Teen Jean were largely inconsequential during that time period and besides most fans did not view them as adequate substitutions. Jean fans still clamored for Jean. Scott fans did not like Teen Scott and wanted him back and Wolverine fans wanted the real deal

[pkingdom]

The entire Terrigen thing was hot garbage, but I still stand by that the rest of the characters were more interesting without them around. All of them had so much baggage that I didn't care about them anymore and seeing other characters trying to step up and lead without them was cool.

When they came back, I knew so many cool people were about to get shafted. My response was "great, these tired ****ers who've failed at most of their goals, or made things much worse for everyone around them, get to come back and do the same thing that got everyone into this mess again. for like the millionth time. ugh."

Might not be totally fair, but yeah.

[phoenixzero23]

The entire Terrigen thing was hot garbage, but I still stand by that the rest of the characters were more interesting without them around. All of them had so much baggage that I didn't care about them anymore and seeing other characters trying to step up and lead without them was cool.

When they came back, I knew so many cool people were about to get shafted. My response was "great, these tired ****ers who've failed at most of their goals, or made things much worse for everyone around them, get to come back and do the same thing that got everyone into this mess again. for like the millionth time. ugh."

Might not be totally fair, but yeah.

Who would you want in charge?

[Havok83]

The entire Terrigen thing was hot garbage, but I still stand by that the rest of the characters were more interesting without them around. All of them had so much baggage that I didn't care about them anymore and seeing other characters trying to step up and lead without them was cool.

When they came back, I knew so many cool people were about to get shafted. My response was "great, these tired ****ers who've failed at most of their goals, or made things much worse for everyone around them, get to come back and do the same thing that got everyone into this mess again. for like the millionth time. ugh."

Might not be totally fair, but yeah.

But who was more intersting? I cant think of any character that actually thrived during that era

[Harpsikord]

But who was more intersting? I cant think of any character that actually thrived during that era

I can: Iceman. Entirely because of his solo.

[Omega Alpha]

The entire Terrigen thing was hot garbage, but I still stand by that the rest of the characters were more interesting without them around. All of them had so much baggage that I didn't care about them anymore and seeing other characters trying to step up and lead without them was cool.

When they came back, I knew so many cool people were about to get shafted. My response was "great, these tired ****ers who've failed at most of their goals, or made things much worse for everyone around them, get to come back and do the same thing that got everyone into this mess again. for like the millionth time. ugh."

Might not be totally fair, but yeah.

Yeah, that's non-sense. Right now, everyone is alive and in the 616 for the first time in nearly 20 years and there's dozens of characters in more important roles than they had ever had in the X-men like Moira, Betsy, Kwannon, Goldballs (Goldballs!), Tempus, Doug Ramsey (Doug Ramsey!), Sunspot, etc. And again, we already removed every major character from the spotlight and the books only got worse.

Besides, the X-men franchise is really plagued with stuff like this- you don't see Avengers fans saying "let's remove Cap. America, Iron Man, Thor, Vision, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Wasp, Scarlet Witch, etc, all from the books, and make the books about some obscure character no one cares about". Same for the FF and the JLA, it's just some X-men fans with stupid hipster non-sense like this "Yeah, the X-books would be much better if they were all about Pixie and Anole and not Wolverine and Cyclops. I know this because I'm cooler than all you basics".

[Killerbee911]

sometimes it feels like people want to convince that x-men comics are better if Jean is dead

Jean Grey being dead was a Uncle Ben/Gwen Stacy moment for the X-men. Her death was a defining motivation for the X-men. I am perfectly fine with Jean Grey being alive I think she a great character BUT it is 100% percent easy to say that X-men comics are better with Jean Grey dead. And the same thing is true for Xavier being dead, Xavier being dead is better for the franchise the only thing Xavier being alive has done is make him look like a worse leader and add on some horrible thing he has done. The myth of some characters are better than characters themselves. Jean as tragic reminder of the morality of the X-men and the close friend they all lost is going to be worth more than anything she will ever do. Xavier has "mythical saintly wise loving father figure" mentor who is the epitome of ideals is worth more than any story you can tell.

"Xavier's Dream" "Thunderbird anybody at anytime can die" and "Jean Grey's Sacrifice" these are key things for the X-men. "Jean Grey the ideal" is better than "Jean Grey the character".

[Ambaryerno]

Not really as those were all treated as different characters. OML was different...

Other than a few token remarks here and there, pretty much everyone in AND out of universe more or less treated OML as if he were 616 Logan. He picked right up where Logan Prime left off, and it was literally like Logan never died.

[pkingdom]

Who would you want in charge?

Of the X-men? I would have said Kitty, but they didn't handle her well. Colossus, Nightcrawler and Iceman stepping up and trying to lead would have been cool, and having some of the original New Mutants who had aged-up on panel and graduated be filling in in the spots those three usually took.

But who was more intersting? I cant think of any character that actually thrived during that era

I thought Iceman had potential, and the Shatterstar miniseries was fantastic. Laura was a godsend as All New Wolverine. To be clear, there was a loooooooooooot of bad writing and wasted potential. But even now after bringing literally everyone back we're still getting stories focusing largely on the regular mainstays.

[pkingdom]

Jean Grey being dead was a Uncle Ben/Gwen Stacy moment for the X-men. Her death was a defining motivation for the X-men. I am perfectly fine with Jean Grey being alive I think she a great character BUT it is 100% percent easy to say that X-men comics are better with Jean Grey dead. And the same thing is true for Xavier being dead, Xavier being dead is better for the franchise the only thing Xavier being alive has done is make him look like a worse leader and add on some horrible thing he has done. The myth of some characters are better than characters themselves. Jean as tragic reminder of the morality of the X-men and the close friend they all lost is going to be worth more than anything she will ever do. Xavier has "mythical saintly wise loving father figure" mentor who is the epitome of ideals is worth more than any story you can tell.

"Xavier's Dream" "Thunderbird anybody at anytime can die" and "Jean Grey's Sacrifice" these are key things for the X-men. "Jean Grey the ideal" is better than "Jean Grey the character".

We disagree a lot on here, but I agree with you on this. Every time Xavier comes back he becomes a worse and worse person. He's better as a dead inspirational figurehead than an ongoing character. At this point I don't know why anyone follows him because of number of horrible things he's done and the lies he's told. Jean, well....she's just been gone so long she just doesn't feel necessary to me. Like, everyone has moved on, and now she's back. I'm sure her fans are happy, but she's been gone the entire time I've been reading comics, so I don't care about her one way or another.

[Zelena]

We disagree a lot on here, but I agree with you on this. Every time Xavier comes back he becomes a worse and worse person. He's better as a dead inspirational figurehead than an ongoing character. At this point I don't know why anyone follows him because of number of horrible things he's done and the lies he's told. Jean, well....she's just been gone so long she just doesn't feel necessary to me. Like, everyone has moved on, and now she's back. I'm sure her fans are happy, but she's been gone the entire time I've been reading comics, so I don't care about her one way or another.

Well, Jean Grey has been so long the Phoenix, so it makes sense that she leaves and comes back…
As, for Xavier… what is Xavier without his dream? Contrary to Pkingdom, I liked the character. Conflicted, complicated, flawed… I can stand (who am I to judge people even fictional ones?) But heartless and cynical like Hickman made him… no. Never once before this run has he been delighted in the use of violence. I don't understand why authors use characters if they don't include what is at the core of their personality.
About death… sure, ressurections cheapen the concept. (Well, comics are very different from life from this point of view because nothing what we can do is able to cheapen it). More, I don't think that people need to die for their ideas and speeches to matter. Death endows what they have said with an particular aura, that's all.
At a moment or another, ideals need to be challenged, updated… What has Hickman make of Xavier's dream is, so far, an exercise of demolition. That Xavier is alive or he is not doesn't matter because the 'original Xavier' doesn't exist anymore…

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

We disagree a lot on here, but I agree with you on this. Every time Xavier comes back he becomes a worse and worse person. He's better as a dead inspirational figurehead than an ongoing character. At this point I don't know why anyone follows him because of number of horrible things he's done and the lies he's told.

Definitely agree here. It's like, every time he comes back you get a steel pipe to the knee; just when you think he's put people through enough, suddenly it's revealed there was more behind the curtain that he was planning all along. Like, the guy is a master manipulator, to sociopathic degrees at times, and I'm kind of shocked his own villainous potential hasn't been delved into...or at least the idea of how much emotional abuse his students must've suffered, be it directly or indirectly...