Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

The only way to criticize 100% fairly a run is right after the last issue is released. As we read month to month normal do critics while it is going.

there is alot of nuance lacking on HoxpoxDoX, I don't think it is too soon to critic it, as i said before it is realeased issue by issue, so we critic issue by issue

Besides, how is it different from anyone else's reactions in previous runs? Why don't readers have the right to criticise the execution as they see it?

[spirit2011]

Besides, how is it different from anyone else's reactions in previous runs? Why don't readers have the right to criticise the execution as they see it?

Yeah, it have been this way forever. I don't think anyone waited for the issue to Guggemheim or Rosenberg to talk badly about it.

It's really bad that the only book with critics to Krakoa is cancelled and I'm not sure other books gonna pick up the threads.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Yeah, it have been this way forever. I don't think anyone waited for the issue to Guggemheim or Rosenberg to talk badly about it.

It's really bad that the only book with critics to Krakoa is cancelled and I'm not sure other books gonna pick up the threads.

Oh I can already tell ya it's not; I've gone through so many relaunches at this point that I can tell ya, new writers don't tend to pay any more notice to what the one's before them have established than they absolutely have to. Even then, they tend to just want to push it all away for the sake of their own vision.

[CRaymond]

I hate MOST time travelers. I like Rachel (Chaotic Good), Ahab (Lawful Evil), Bishop (Lawful Good), and Fitzroy (Chaotic Evil) and I wish they were all spun out of DOFP.

[Kisinith]

Yeah, it have been this way forever. I don't think anyone waited for the issue to Guggemheim or Rosenberg to talk badly about it.

It's really bad that the only book with critics to Krakoa is cancelled and I'm not sure other books gonna pick up the threads.

Slight point of order, they didn't cancel it, that was on the writer.

Also the criticism of Rosenberg and Guggenheim weren't about their long term plans but more on how what happened in each subsequent issue was worse than the previous. Rosenberg at least (Can't speak about Guggs wasn't paying too much attention then) had a fair amount of good will at the beginning, it started to wane as his book descended into new depths of despair porn.

The biggest difference I've noted (purely my own opinion) is that the criticism for Guggenheim and Rosenberg was about what they did in the comic being terrible (We get it, Kitty is the most magical perfect wondrous... oh look Prestige got mind-controlled and Storm's unconscious... Kitty to the rescue/Dear God why did you kill Blindfold/Wolfsbane/Havoc etc. etc. etc), whereas the criticism for DoX has usually been around assumptions not backed up by evidence (Marauders/Kitty are murdering humans) and complaints about whats not in the books (why aren't they showing us mutants who don't like Krakoa)

[pkingdom]

The resurrections are completely wasted and lazy. From a meta standpoint, they've almost been completely ignored. Is anyone who has been brought back in a major book? The only people who've died and were brought back and mattered as the group Hickman killed for fake drama. The only story they are playing a part in is X-force, and its been used for cheap shock value and gore. He introduced this major concept and proceeded to ignore it. We've been told that there's going to be a series examining it, but so far that looks like its been folded in with the main line, and we're just getting one issue.

Posters keep saying that the X-men and mutants don't care or are too happy to question things. Where have we seen any of that? We've had a lot of people saying they're happy but haven't ever seen anyone do anything besides party. Some of these characters have been dead for years. If Xavier showed up to their family and said 'hey, I grew you a new brother! He looks, sounds and acts just like him!", wondering why at least one person didn't react with horror is normal. Villains have pulled this same schtick for years. 'Give me what I want and I'll bring your dead family member back to life/revive your kingdom/make your dreams come true' has been done a hundred million times. Heroes are supposed to reject that thing. Well, except Spider-Man, but that's why we have so many replacements for him these days.

[Kisinith]

The resurrections are completely wasted and lazy. From a meta standpoint, they've almost been completely ignored. Is anyone who has been brought back in a major book? The only people who've died and were brought back and mattered as the group Hickman killed for fake drama. The only story they are playing a part in is X-force, and its been used for cheap shock value and gore. He introduced this major concept and proceeded to ignore it. We've been told that there's going to be a series examining it, but so far that looks like its been folded in with the main line, and we're just getting one issue.

Posters keep saying that the X-men and mutants don't care or are too happy to question things. Where have we seen any of that? We've had a lot of people saying they're happy but haven't ever seen anyone do anything besides party. Some of these characters have been dead for years. If Xavier showed up to their family and said 'hey, I grew you a new brother! He looks, sounds and acts just like him!", wondering why at least one person didn't react with horror is normal. Villains have pulled this same schtick for years. 'Give me what I want and I'll bring your dead family member back to life/revive your kingdom/make your dreams come true' has been done a hundred million times. Heroes are supposed to reject that thing. Well, except Spider-Man, but that's why we have so many replacements for him these days.

The resurrections also put all of the broken toys the X-Men have accumulated over the years back on the table.
They reject it if the cost is too great, what was the cost? Tolerate these despicable people as they help us bring back murdered mutants and also help us prevent further genocide.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Slight point of order, they didn't cancel it, that was on the writer.

Also the criticism of Rosenberg and Guggenheim weren't about their long term plans but more on how what happened in each subsequent issue was worse than the previous. Rosenberg at least (Can't speak about Guggs wasn't paying too much attention then) had a fair amount of good will at the beginning, it started to wane as his book descended into new depths of despair porn.

The biggest difference I've noted (purely my own opinion) is that the criticism for Guggenheim and Rosenberg was about what they did in the comic being terrible (We get it, Kitty is the most magical perfect wondrous... oh look Prestige got mind-controlled and Storm's unconscious... Kitty to the rescue/Dear God why did you kill Blindfold/Wolfsbane/Havoc etc. etc. etc), whereas the criticism for DoX has usually been around assumptions not backed up by evidence (Marauders/Kitty are murdering humans) and complaints about whats not in the books (why aren't they showing us mutants who don't like Krakoa)

But still that doesn't strike me as any less hypocritical: why is Hickman any less prone to criticism just because of some 'long term plan'? If he isn't convincing us of his execution month to month then why is above reproach, regardless of what the payoff is? And, especially, if it's going to take years to actually get there?

People were surely still doing the same for what they thought things implied/what they wanted to see in those other runs? "The O5 should just leave already!!" Is one sentiment I remember pretty vividly.

Besides; if people are asking those questions or making such assumptions or asking those questions then, yes, it is a fault of the writer's for not clarifying as such.

[Kisinith]

But still that doesn't strike me as any less hypocritical: why is Hickman any less prone to criticism just because of some 'long term plan'? If he isn't convincing us of his execution month to month then why is above reproach, regardless of what the payoff is? And, especially, if it's going to take years to actually get there?

People were surely still doing the same for what they thought things implied/what they wanted to see in those other runs? "The O5 should just leave already!!" Is one sentiment I remember pretty vividly.

Besides; if people are asking those questions or making such assumptions or asking those questions then, yes, it is a fault of the writer's for not clarifying as such.

Sure, as I said everyone is entitled to their opinion and to criticize as they see fit and on a public forum people who disagree will argue it. Using Guggenheim and Rosenberg however runs into the fact that especially as it went on they didn't have too many people who would defend them.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Sure, as I said everyone is entitled to their opinion and to criticize as they see fit and on a public forum people who disagree will argue it. Using Guggenheim and Rosenberg however runs into the fact that especially as it went on they didn't have too many people who would defend them.

Alright, what about Claremont and his return for X-Men Forever? Did his reputation put him above month-to-month criticism? Or even any of the new mini's he put out afterwards?

[Kisinith]

Alright, what about Claremont and his return for X-Men Forever? Did his reputation put him above month-to-month criticism? Or even any of the new mini's he put out afterwards?

For some people, yes it did. There are still people clamoring for him to be given the keys to the kingdom (Not me, I haven't been a fan of his in a very long time). As to month to month criticism, no idea I wasn't following it at the time

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

For some people, yes it did. There are still people clamoring for him to be given the keys to the kingdom (Not me, I haven't been a fan of his in a very long time). As to month to month criticism, no idea I wasn't following it at the time

And look what happened there, right? I love his old work too, but good god has everything else since been awful.

Hickman has a reputation, but it doesn't put him above reproach, especially if his manner of story-telling doesn't work for some readers.

[Starfish]

Posters keep saying that the X-men and mutants don't care or are too happy to question things. Where have we seen any of that? We've had a lot of people saying they're happy but haven't ever seen anyone do anything besides party.

Krakoa's perpetual dance party reminds me a bit of David's cult in the third season of Legion. Didn't he have a magic drug-dispensing, people-absorbing tree too?

[pkingdom]

The resurrections also put all of the broken toys the X-Men have accumulated over the years back on the table.
They reject it if the cost is too great, what was the cost? Tolerate these despicable people as they help us bring back murdered mutants and also help us prevent further genocide.

The cost was: leave human society (understandable, if sad) and put Apocalypse, Magneto, Mystique and Sinister in charge. Start taking orders from them. Basically abandon any pretense of morality, and then you get a simulacra of your friends back. For some that's too much. And that literally all of them agreed to this without even a hint of discussion or concern is stunning.

[Ambaryerno]

Slight point of order, they didn't cancel it, that was on the writer.

Yeah, because it's totally not like Marvel has ever switched creative teams on a book in the past.

Hill may not have been able to keep up, but Marvel had options to keep it going had they chosen to. You can spin it however you like, but it's CANCELED.