Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[Soulsword323]

I don't care if people like Krakoa or not. People don't have to. However, a number of people who don't care for it have created narratives that are entirely based in head canon, or have been contradicted by what's been established by text. It doesn't help that those who don't recreate the same thread, to have the same conversation every couple of weeks.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

I don't care if people like Krakoa or not. People don't have to. However, a number of people who don't care for it have created narratives that are entirely based in head canon, or have been contraindicated by what been established by text. It doesn't help that those who don't recreate the same thread, to have the same conversation every couple of weeks.

I'd like to point out that it's different users creating their own individual threads to discuss those topics. As such, it isn't particularly clear that these concerns are being contradicted if it's still a talking-point.

[Soulsword323]

I'd like to point out that it's different users creating their own individual threads to discuss those topics. As such, it isn't particularly clear that these concerns are being contradicted if it's still a talking-point.

Different people or not, its still the same thread being remade every other week. Also, a lot what you'be been saying has been contradicted.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Different people or not, its still the same thread being remade every other week. Also, a lot what you'be been saying has been contradicted.

Which is their right to make.

How so?

[Soulsword323]

Which is their right to make.

How so?

You've gone on and on about human allies, and we've gotten that via X-Force. They're working with Krakoa.

All Mutants think they're above humans because Magneto acts like that. Wolverine debunked that by stating he doesn't feel that way.

You also got both Jean and Cyclops in House of X speaking in defense of some of the humans working on Orchis. I can't recall exactly what they said, but they didn't think all the people were necessarily evil.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

You've gone on and on about human allies, and we've gotten that via X-Force. They're working with Krakoa.

All Mutants think they're above humans because Magneto acts like that. Wolverine debunked that by stating he doesn't feel that way.

You also got both Jean and Cyclops in House of X speaking in defense of some of the humans working on Orchis. I can't recall exactly what they said, but they didn't think all the people were necessarily evil.

Which sounds great and I really hope we get more of that! I haven't been able to read those newer issues yet because of my broken ankle and I haven't been able to get to my LCS. However that does sound amazing!

I don't recall Jean or Cyclops speaking up in defence of the Orchis humans though?

What I would like to clarify though: while I'm aware of Logan's position, I hope more mutants speak up in a similar vein. Better yet, I feel someone needs to directly call Magneto on his attitude because, as of right now, it still feels that his rhetoric is being celebrated and embraced more-so than that of Logan's.

[Soulsword323]

Which sounds great and I really hope we get more of that! I haven't been able to read those newer issues yet because of my broken ankle and I haven't been able to get to my LCS. However that does sound amazing!

I don't recall Jean or Cyclops speaking up in defence of the Orchis humans though?

What I would like to clarify though: while I'm aware of Logan's position, I hope more mutants speak up in a similar vein. Better yet, I feel someone needs to directly call Magneto on his attitude.

Oops. Sorry for spoiling it. Hope you're able to pick them up soon.

It was more so Jean, but I believe Scott agreed with her. Something along the lines of them being fueled by fear more so than hate or something? I honestly can't recall exactly what was said. Maybe someone out there can post a scan if they know what I'm talking about.

[Zelena]

I actually agree with Domino_Dare.Doll and pkingdom quite a bit about the current stories. I'm not a fan of Hickman's HoX/PoX and I got a catty response recently in an Appreciation thread I frequent from someone I usually got a long well with no less. What is it about Hickman that people are grasping on to it like its some important holy grail? Whats different from him than the other writers that have been criticized? And since when did you have to hide out in here if you didn't like the current writing? This is still CBR, right? Probably some of the most critical fans ever in existence. Welp, I called his writing boring and pretentious and since there is no going back from it... can I add I don't like his dialogue? Nope? Well... I'm doing it anyways since its the controversial opinion thread for a reason. *scrams*

You will always have a stronger reaction from someone who disagrees with you than the opposite.
I admit that I don't understand why people like Hickman's run with such passion when the characters seem to lack passion and have so expressionless faces. My understanding is that it has something to do with revenge of mutants on the 'humans' after so many 'years of persecution'…

[Lucyinthesky]

I don`t think Hickman`s run for what we have seen is perfect, in fact I don`t find it quite yet to the level of characterization he had for characters like the Fantastic Four or the Iluminati, because they had plenty of scenes to explain where they were cominng from even if their actions were extreme, we have yet to see this from the X-men or the Quiet Council we don`t know their reasons which gives space for fans to especulate and make theories but given X-men is still at number 4 and at least the idea of Krakoa brings a lot of possibilities for the characters I am giving Hickman the benefice of doubt and let him tell the story, because he`s the kind of writer who usually has an endpoint to take the characters and a direction in mind, something that has been missing for years in X-men comics.

[Zelena]

Slight point of order, they didn't cancel it, that was on the writer.

Also the criticism of Rosenberg and Guggenheim weren't about their long term plans but more on how what happened in each subsequent issue was worse than the previous. Rosenberg at least (Can't speak about Guggs wasn't paying too much attention then) had a fair amount of good will at the beginning, it started to wane as his book descended into new depths of despair porn.

The biggest difference I've noted (purely my own opinion) is that the criticism for Guggenheim and Rosenberg was about what they did in the comic being terrible (We get it, Kitty is the most magical perfect wondrous... oh look Prestige got mind-controlled and Storm's unconscious... Kitty to the rescue/Dear God why did you kill Blindfold/Wolfsbane/Havoc etc. etc. etc), whereas the criticism for DoX has usually been around assumptions not backed up by evidence (Marauders/Kitty are murdering humans) and complaints about whats not in the books (why aren't they showing us mutants who don't like Krakoa)

About assumptions, in my case, it's less and less the case. You assume something when you suppose the writer has designed this something.
Now, I don't think Hickman aimed for subtility, so I don't expect it.

My biggest critic is about the lack of emotions: where is Xavier's warmth? Ororo's kindness? Magneto's complexity?

[Lucyinthesky]

About assumptions, in my case, it's less and less the case. You assume something when you suppose the writer has designed this something.
Now, I don't think Hickman aimed for subtility, so I don't expect it.

My biggest critic is about the lack of emotions: where is Xavier's warmth? Ororo's kindness? Magneto's complexity?

On this I agree completely, I would add Moira`s compassion on that list. But well, this run has rationality and logic, and a really big potential but the heart of the characters and their motives is still missing and Hickman can`t just expect fans to acept without question his present take on the characters without giving them on page a reason and characterization acording to who they are and why they are making those decisions, on this I agree but I don`t agree we should condem him before he has a chance to tell the story.

[Zelena]

On this I agree completely, I would add Moira`s compassion on that list. But well, this run has rationality and logic, and a really big potential but the heart of the characters and their motives is still missing and Hickman can`t just expect fans to acept without question his present take on the characters without giving them on page a reason and characterization acording to who they are, on this I agree but I don`t agree we should condem him before he has a chance to tell the story.

Yes, but either he continues along the same lines, or there is a twist. For a twist to occur, you must drop hints otherwise it would look unbelievable and artificial…

[Tycon]

Xavier’s warmth? His kindness and optimism has been on full blast since House of X #1 came out. Moira even puts him on blast for it. He goes on and on about his love for the X-Men, where he full on adopts his father figure role, as well as his love for the humans even though they hurt him repeatedly. Hell, his HOX6 and XM4 speeches are about how he is changing the game but he would drop it “radical” persona as soon as the humans agree to abide by his dream again. Something that Namor calls him out on.

Ororo’s kindness?



Plus the reunions Storm had with Cyclops, Marvel Girl, and Penance???

[Lucyinthesky]

Yes, but either he continues along the same lines, or there is a twist. For a twist to occur, you must drop hints otherwise it would look unbelievable and artificial…

Agreed I am waiting for the other shoe to drop honestly or at least get better understanding of where the characters head is at this moment and this is something that has to happen in the main series too not just on Excalibur or X-Force. I get Hickman is doing his science fiction thing about evolution, alien races and that`s all well and fine but if he takes out the heart of the characters to make that story he will end doing a science fiction story not an X-men story and if that`s effectively the case then I will agree his take on the X-men was bad and retcons exist for a reason.

I am defending him because when he puts his mind to it he can make really complex dialogue from a heart and mind pov but if he sees the X-men( even Magneto) as characters that only care about evolution, survival, power, and their apparent superiority then he`s sorely mistaken, the X-men always had more heart than that and then yes, the fans would be right to call him on it but this has not happened yet.

[Devaishwarya]

And Magneto's complexity was on full show in XM 04.
Unless the words "warmth" "Kindness" and "complexity" are being used in entirely different contexts and understandings.
Which is not the fault of the writer but that of the reader.