Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[scourge]

I don't think Hickman gets to go in with a complete 'benefit of the doubt'. He's got two huge franchises of work we can use to measure what might happen or at least get a general feel for how things might go.

And for some more general ones:
-Not sure how 'unpopular' it is but...I'm glad this whole thing didn't get named 'Age of Krakoa' or anything like that.
-In regards to Hellion, I don't think he was working with the Inhumans at their hospital willingly. Wouldn't put it past an Inhuman to have messed with his head or held a 'do this or no powers back' at him. His appearance there felt off in general.
-Rather than take up space in the books themselves, all the graphs and charts and datapages should get a one-shot to themselves...wrap a story around them about someone writing all the stuff up in universe too.
-Discussed this with a friend the other night: Glob Herman's design is annoying. Why is just his digestive system visible? Why even have that? Would 'skeleton in blob of wax' look better than 'skeleton, indistinct blob of organs, googly eyes, wax blob'? Why no lungs? No heart? Why do we have to see organs at all? Does he even need them?
-The fact that every single new villain has instant "No powers for you!" weapons right off the bat is lazy as heck writing.

[Lucyinthesky]

It`s a different context but I don`t think it`s the readers fault or the writter is just that we have not seen the X-men appart from Scott on more normal seeting interacting with humans and mutants or talking about seeing their friends that are not mutants, those kind of things add to the characterization and allows the reader to see where the character head is at the moment.

For example, We have yet to see Scott visiting or thinking about his grandparents in the context of what Krakoa means for them, but well Corsair has been there and he kind of has made a comment about the X-men not being so friendly to normal humans anymore given Krakoa`s separation but Scott didn`t agree with him and that`s understable, Corsair wasn`t there to see all the things that happened to Scott during the Utopia era.

[Tycon]

So it sounds less like the characters being portrayed aren’t displaying certain emotions and more we haven’t gotten specific scenes that will validate what core concepts people feel is missing.

[Devaishwarya]

...and it's interpretation based mainly off of personal and subjective expectation rather than what's objectively written on the page...which, as you say is not necessarily the fault of the reader, (although more often than not it is) but can be problematic in how they present the work to others.

[TheRay]

There was a time when Kurt floated the idea that anybody could join the X-Men even if he (or she) weren't a mutant.

I would imagine there are a few people in the X-Men that would support that idea.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

So it sounds less like the characters being portrayed aren’t displaying certain emotions and more we haven’t gotten specific scenes that will validate what core concepts people feel is missing.

Yeah, exactly. It's not unreasonable to think people won't be convinced until we see it. It's the writer's job to prove his concept to us, not just tell us that we should be alright with it. Like; it's one thing to say "It's a new situation, characters are going to act differently!" but not until you address why. And I mean directly, within the narrative. It's not an unreasonable thing to need.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

So...it's interpretation based mainly off of personal and subjective expectation rather than what's objectively written on the page...which, as you say is not the fault of the reader but can be problematic in how they present the work to others.

It's no different than what's been expected of any work ever, though, by anyone here.

Even during the o5's tenure; people were complaining that changes to their character felt unjustified regardless of what situations they were in. Didn't stop people snarling at every turn. Fair's fair, isn't it?

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

And Magneto's complexity was on full show in XM 04.
Unless the words "warmth" "Kindness" and "complexity" are being used in entirely different contexts and understandings.
Which is not the fault of the writer but that of the reader.

What complexity? Magneto was just arrogant. He was happy to talk down the bridge of his nose at anyone who disagreed with him. Xavier had a hint of warmth, that's more than can be said for how he was in HOX/POX, but even then it's up in the air if ya can trust him at all yet.

[Tycon]

Yeah, exactly. It's not unreasonable to think people won't be convinced until we see it. It's the writer's job to prove his concept to us, not just tell us that we should be alright with it. Like; it's one thing to say "It's a new situation, characters are going to act differently!" but not until you address why. And I mean directly, within the narrative. It's not an unreasonable thing to need.

As many people have already provided scans of, there is heart and emotion behind the X-Men. We see the New Mutants acting like a family again, Storm when she welcomes the living back to Krakoa, Xavier displaying his love, Cyclops taking his family out for a mission etc etc. We’re repeatedly seeing what people are asking for, but because it isn’t happening in some certain scene that’s been played out in certain readers heads, it isn’t being acknowledged. That’s not the fault of the writer for not delivering what was never promised in the first place. We do see kindness and warmth and optimism, but if readers don’t see it that way because of bias (implicit or explicit) against the story from the get-go then that’s plainly on the reader, especially if it gets passed off as something objective.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

About assumptions, in my case, it's less and less the case. You assume something when you suppose the writer has designed this something.
Now, I don't think Hickman aimed for subtility, so I don't expect it.

My biggest critic is about the lack of emotions: where is Xavier's warmth? Ororo's kindness? Magneto's complexity?

Agreed 100000%. The only voice Hickman has a grasp on so far is Magneto, and then I just think it's because he gels better with his line of reasoning.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

As many people have already provided scans of, there is heart and emotion behind the X-Men. We see the New Mutants acting like a family again, Storm when she welcomes the living back to Krakoa, Xavier displaying his love, Cyclops taking his family out for a mission etc etc. We’re repeatedly seeing what people are asking for, but because it isn’t happening in some certain scene that’s been played out in certain readers heads, it isn’t being acknowledged. That’s not the fault of the writer for not delivering what was never promised in the first place. We do see kindness and warmth and optimism, but if readers don’t see it that way because of bias (implicit or explicit) against the story from the get-go then that’s plainly on the reader, especially if it gets passed off as something objective.

You see it; we don't. The dialogue feels stiff and the characters feel overly militant. Xavier's very presence is continually ominous, Scott had absolutely no chemistry with anyone he interacts with because he, Rachel and Cable (and others) have no discernible voice of their own. There's no heart, there's no spirit, there's nothing beyond them being mouth-pieces for how flawed humanity is or how amazing the island is. None of these characters appear to be interacting meaningfully; they're just there.

You assume that readers have specific expectations; what if I said we did, but for a sense of personality behind these characters? What if I told you that everything does feel false because of the lack of such? And that lack of such is the cause of such based on the execution of the concept? You blame the reader, I blame the writer just as much.

Your opinion or even interpretation of the reactions seen is no more objective than anyone else's.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

I don't think Hickman gets to go in with a complete 'benefit of the doubt'. He's got two huge franchises of work we can use to measure what might happen or at least get a general feel for how things might go.

And for some more general ones:
-Not sure how 'unpopular' it is but...I'm glad this whole thing didn't get named 'Age of Krakoa' or anything like that.
-In regards to Hellion, I don't think he was working with the Inhumans at their hospital willingly. Wouldn't put it past an Inhuman to have messed with his head or held a 'do this or no powers back' at him. His appearance there felt off in general.
-Rather than take up space in the books themselves, all the graphs and charts and datapages should get a one-shot to themselves...wrap a story around them about someone writing all the stuff up in universe too.
-Discussed this with a friend the other night: Glob Herman's design is annoying. Why is just his digestive system visible? Why even have that? Would 'skeleton in blob of wax' look better than 'skeleton, indistinct blob of organs, googly eyes, wax blob'? Why no lungs? No heart? Why do we have to see organs at all? Does he even need them?
-The fact that every single new villain has instant "No powers for you!" weapons right off the bat is lazy as heck writing.

Agreed with all of this completely!

[Lucyinthesky]

So it sounds less like the characters being portrayed aren’t displaying certain emotions and more we haven’t gotten specific scenes that will validate what core concepts people feel is missing.

Yes, it should not take much, just a little introspective into how the X-men went from coexistence to the build of Krakoa, Utopia had some of this previous characterization but with Krakoa I felt like we are in the middle of the story without seeing what made the X-men decide that was the path they wanted and their reasons for it, for example, we have seen wolverine acepting Krakoa`s existence, having a beer with Gorgon but still having doubts about the presence of some mutants on Krakoa, hell even Magneto asked Apocalypse to give him his word he would respect their laws, we have seen Moira`s reasons and a little of Xavier reasons but we have yet to see Jean, Storm, Cyclops, Nightcrawler, Colossus, Gambit, Kitty talking about how they see the situation and why they are doing what they are doing, those as primordial scenes that need to be seen so we can see where their head is at the moment .

]So...it's interpretation based mainly off of personal and subjective expectation rather than what's objectively written on the page...which, as you say is not the fault of the reader but can be problematic in how they present the work to others[/B].

Yes, with literature and even comics interpretation can`t not be subjective, there`s always a subjective element where the reader sees something the writer didn`t mean and viceversa, but this doesn`t mean that certain things or parts of a narrative can be left out because then the story would feel artificial, made just because the writer feels like writting it while not making logical sense inside story.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Yes, it should not take much, just a little intropective into how the X-men went from coexistence to the build of Krakoa, Utopia had some of this previous characterization but with Krakoa I felt like we are in the middle of the story without seeing what made the X-men decide that was the path they wanted and their resons for it, for example we have seen wolverine acepting Krakoa`s existence, having a beer with Gorgon but still having doubts about the presence of some mutants on Krakoa, hell even Magneto asked Apocalypse to give him his word he would respect their laws but we have yet to see Jean, Storm, Cyclops, Nightcrawler, Colossu, Gambit, Kitty talking about how they see the situation and why they are doing what they are doing, those as primordial scenes that need to be seen so we can see where their head is at the moment .



Yes, with literature and even comics interpretation can`t not be subjective, but this doesn`t mean that certain things or parts of a narrativa can be left out because then the story would feel artificial, made just because the writer feels like it while not making logical sense inside story.

Exactly. It's like we're missing massive, pivotal chunks that doesn't even need a whole page dedicated to it. Just a reaction drawn on page to the mention of a past event is enough to set-up where the characters feel they are at. It's so simple but so, so important.

Hell, even in the past when characters have switched sides, they've usually had someone else on panel in one form or another pushing for them to prove it.

[Tycon]

You see it; we don't. The dialogue feels stiff and the characters feel overly militant. Xavier's very presence is continually ominous, Scott had absolutely no chemistry with anyone he interacts with because he, Rachel and Cable (and others) have no discernible voice of their own. There's no heart, there's no spirit, there's nothing beyond them being mouth-pieces for how flawed humanity is or how amazing the island is.

You assume that readers have specific expectations; what if I said we did, but for a sense of personality behind these characters? What if I told you that everything does feel false because of the lack of such? And that lack of such is the cause of such based on the execution of the concept? You blame the reader, I blame the writer just as much.

Your opinion or even interpretation of the reactions seen is no more objective than anyone else's.

This is a thread for unpopular opinions. Many have been receptive to Hickman’s portrayal of the X-Men. It’s why the scenes like Wolfsbane’s resurrection or the Orchis Orbital Assault or celebration afterward have been so emotionally resonant with fans.

Comics aren’t just white pages with black text sprawled all over it for 28 pages. It’s a visual medium. What is being discussed is that the characters have no emotion and there’s no attempt to make it present in the story. That is objectively not true. However, on a subjective note, wanting scenes that exemplify this in other ways is fair but an absence of that doesn’t detract from what is happening on-page. We see Storm’s maternal and protective voice just as much as we see Magneto’s commanding and stern voice. Wanting more of one or the other is valid.