Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[scourge]

Also!
-HOW and WHEN did Xavier get out of Phantomex's body?
And what happened to him? May not like that overhyped guy but its a pretty big oversight considering where he last was status quo wise...

[pkingdom]

Only Logan has shown any doubts about working with complete monsters like Apocalypse and Sinister. Just a couple months ago Apocalypse was one of those 'we must do whatever it takes to prevent this person coming to power' characters.

Those Xavier pages don't mean anything. He was a terrible person before HoXPoX and he's an even worse person after. And that line from Magneto is absolutely 100% hypocritical. For a very long time, the X-men were the ones saying that exact thing because people were terrified of 'bad' mutants like Magneto and Apocalypse.

Also!
-HOW and WHEN did Xavier get out of Phantomex's body?
And what happened to him? May not like that overhyped guy but its a pretty big oversight considering where he last was status quo wise...

I assumed he was still in it. We haven't seen Phantomex, have we?

[Lucyinthesky]

But they don't know if it will work...Mutants living in perfect harmony with humans in the near/far is not an absolute certainty. But they have to do something proactive, they have to believe in this new dream, they have to try to make that future a reality.
Again, their "mentality" and motivation are clearly shown in comic...in HoX/PoX and right up into XM 04.

Yes but inside story we have yet to see them coming to this conclusion, we saw them happy on krakoa and them doing some missions but I have not seen them thinking about their new home and the formation of the Quiet Council or what changes they would like to do so Krakoa prospers etc, or their no mutants friends and family, etc. I just think a little old fashioed instrospective about that it`s neccesary for the story to develop, that`s all.

When Hickman put the iluminatis in the problem of having to destroy a planet to save their earth from destruction he took the time to put every characters pov and their reasoning behind accepting or rejecting that notion, Krakoa is not yet that kind of moral problem but their alliance with their former adversaries still has to make them think about their actios, we have seen a little of this in Excalibur, it would be nice to see this on the main title imo.

[scourge]

I assumed he was still in it. We haven't seen Phantomex, have we?

His appearances so far have him looking more like Xavier-classic so far. And as far as I'm aware, no Phantomex appearances unless I missed him in a splash page or something.

[Lucyinthesky]

Only Logan has shown any doubts about working with complete monsters like Apocalypse and Sinister. Just a couple months ago Apocalypse was one of those 'we must do whatever it takes to prevent this person coming to power' characters.

Those Xavier pages don't mean anything. He was a terrible person before HoXPoX and he's an even worse person after. And that line from Magneto is absolutely 100% hypocritical. For a very long time, the X-men were the ones saying that exact thing because people were terrified of 'bad' mutants like Magneto and Apocalypse.

Why

I would think that attacking mutants on a worldwide level goes a long way into giving mutants the thought that maybe Magneto and Apocalypse aren`t the only problem. As the story and dozens of decimation stories made clear:the problem seems to be mutants themselves, their existence bothers some human institutions, Hickman is just taking it up to eleven, making the X-men tackle this particular problem in a different manner. I agree it needs more clarification but this doesn`t mean the X-men are bad for trying to change the status quo.

[Devaishwarya]

I guess, for me, unlike a lot of readers here, I don't need to see them coming to any explicit realisations (via discussions amongst themselves with supporting dialogue and caption boxes) in story when they are shown to be doing exactly what they intend...across the titles.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

I guess, for me, unlike a lot of readers here, I don't need to see them coming to any explicit realisations (via discussions amongst themselves with supporting dialogue and caption boxes) in story when they are shown to be doing exactly what they intend...across the titles.

That's fair enough, but you can't blame others for feeling that it takes a lot away from the story. Yes; the X-Men are doing what their new mission statement tells them to do. But what others are wondering is what officially tipped them over the edge to get them there.

There's also the fact that there's potentially a lot of emotional value being lost from its' absence. Watching them do things is one thing, experiencing it with them is another.

[Lucyinthesky]

That`s good, I just need a little scene, mostly because I enjoy discussions and dialogue between the characters more than the fights and I would just like to see the X-men think about what they will do if more than one of their council members tries to betray them, appart from sinister, you can make a little moment between them or a story that goes along with Hickmans main story as in one of Moira`s lifes Krakoa fell precisely because the X-men were betrayed from the inside by Sinister. They are not stupid, so I think we have not yet see what they plan to do if something like that happens but this needs to be explicit not leave out behind scenes.

[Astroman]

My controversial opinion set is more meta- than textual:

I love that the Hickman led DoX books have moved the X-Franchise from simplistic semiotic signification and easy allegory to a more complex symbolically driven narrative that requires higher levels of inference, figurative deduction, and complex sociological reading. It feels more like mature speculative fiction than Saturday morning cartoons now.

I love that it is no longer a soap opera with simplistic superhero morality and is something that has both utopian and dystopian elements, and far less melodramatic emoting.

I love that the use of modern information design (the "data pages") is being incorporated into sequential storytelling in ways that are upsetting some people (the way that the loss of thought balloons and narration boxes also upset some people 20-ish years ago) and are pushing the artform into new places. Its already "succeeding" as the only way of failing would be if people didn't react strongly either with love or hate.

And, maybe most controversially, I love that Hickman and Co. are demonstrating to a certain subset of the fanatical that this is fiction. Fiction to be used by the creators and not a living folk mythology to be sacralized by fans that can take this all far too seriously. While "Everyone needs to accept the new normal of Krakoa" might seem like trolling his audience, I think it is more an attempt to challenge a certain subset of the readership to grow.

Claremont in the 70s forged a new level of maturity with what he did with the X-Men. Hickman is doing the same thing here and I think in 10-20 years time we'll see this reflected in other areas of comicdom, both super-fighty "pow pow" books and in other indy areas.

"Evolve. Adapt. Become something more."

The X-Men are leading that evolution again and the fact that people either absolutely LOVE it (the majority based upon sales and reviews) and some absolutely HATE it (a vocal minority who are being left behind) demonstrates that it is working.


EDITED TO ADD: I also love that it is a soft reboot that ignores what it needs to ignore to start fresh.

[PrezValentine]

Also!
-HOW and WHEN did Xavier get out of Phantomex's body?
And what happened to him? May not like that overhyped guy but its a pretty big oversight considering where he last was status quo wise...

It stopped being Fantomex's body the moment Charles used Proteus' power to modify for accommodating his mind. It was, for all effects and purposes, a new version of an actual Xavier body birthed through reality warping.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

That`s good, I just need a little scene, mostly because I enjoy discussions and dialogue between the characters more than the fights and I would just like to see the X-men think about what they will do if more than one of their council members tries to betray them, appart from sinister, you can make a little moment between them or a story that goes along with Hickmans main story as in one of Moira`s lifes Krakoa fell precisely because the X-men were betrayed from the inside by Sinister. They are not stupid, so I think we have not yet see what they plan to do if something like that happens but this needs to be explicit not leave out behind scenes.

I definitely agree; it's those little moments that tell you more about a character than some massive speech ever could. Like how Ororo would come after Remy to stop him killing Mystique, the banter between Kitty and Logan as she challenged his ideas--they all built up to something so much more and made the storylines feel so much richer. It wasn't melodrama, it was interaction.

[Zelena]

The problem is this notion that people are being chased off the board for their opinions. It clearly isn’t stopping anyone from making the same thread about the same premise for the whateverth time.



If you don’t like those scenes, then fine. But to purposely not see the intent behind these scenes is reading in bad faith. Hopefully you can come around to seeing things the way they’re intended while also having your own commentary. Until then, I’ll treat you to another two scenes:

My biggest problem with these panels is that the comic artist has used the same drawings from a panel to another: the result is rather static and you see that more in the mangas than traditionally in western comics. (We use also ellipses, which is not the case in mangas, so they need more panels to tell their stories…)

Also, most of the expressions are rather serene and could be used in many situations (all-purpose expressions), no strong emotions distort the facial characteristics except from the 'human' (he is clearly angry).

The techniques used to tell a story also conveys emotions or not… sometimes there's a shift between what is written in the phylacteries (bubbles) and shown in the pictures.

[Devaishwarya]

That`s good, I just need a little scene, mostly because I enjoy discussions and dialogue between the characters more than the fights and I would just like to see the X-men think about what they will do if more than one of their council members tries to betray them, appart from sinister, you can make a little moment between them or a story that goes along with Hickmans main story as in one of Moira`s lifes Krakoa fell precisely because the X-men were betrayed from the inside by Sinister. They are not stupid, so I think we have not yet see what they plan to do if something like that happens but this needs to be explicit not leave out behind scenes.

I can wait to see what they will do with Sinister when they've realised his duplicity. Though, I'm thinking it might go similar to what happened with Sabretooth, or vastly different depending on Sinister's machinations.
Not everything has to be sorted out up front...they can cross those bridges when they get to them...as JD White 'said' "Stories to be told"

[pkingdom]

Why

I would think that attacking mutants on a worldwide level goes a long way into giving mutants the thought that maybe Magneto and Apocalypse aren`t the only problem. As the story and dozens of decimation stories made clear:the problem seems to be mutants themselves, their existence bothers some human institutions, Hickman is just taking it up to eleven, making the X-men tackle this particular problem in a different manner. I agree it needs more clarification but this doesn`t mean the X-men are bad for trying to change the status quo.

Why was he a terrible person or why was a worse person? Or both?

Obviously interpreting a character like that is down to personal interpretation, so here's mine. I thought he was a bad person for lying to his friends and allies constantly, even mind controlling them when he felt the need too. Deadly Genesis alone was enough for me to never care about him again. What HoXPoX did was take Xavier's flaws and magnify them 100 fold. They made it so that from Day 1 of the X-men, he didn't believe a thing he was saying about coexistence. He and Moira always thought it was doomed, and strung everyone along to get them to this point. They allowed every terrible thing that happened to the X-men to happen, despite having at least some warnings courtesy of Moira.

I personally don't find him interesting, and felt he was better as a dead symbol than an actual character. He's a ludicrously privileged straight white guy with a power that let him coast through life. He's probably one of the worst types of character you could use to make you arguments about minority struggles.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

I can wait to see what they will do with Sinister when they've realised his duplicity. Though, I'm thinking it might go similar to what happened with Sabretooth, or vastly different depending on Sinister's machinations.
Not everything has to be sorted out up front...they can cross those bridges when they get to them...as JD White 'said' "Stories to be told"

Doesn't have to be sorted, but establishing it would have been nice. Also, I'd take what you hear from interviews with a grain of salt; trust me, they rarely pan out to mean that they'll actually address what people are wondering (seen so many empty promises never fulfilled over the years this way.)