Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[Ambaryerno]

Except for the fact Hickman has strongly gone on record as hating that kind of development. The resurrection protocols are not the main focus of the story, they were a tool he used to put all the dead and broken X-Men characters back into play. He's also stated that what he want's to do, long term, is alter the deconstructive death spiral the X-Books have been in for a long while now. That when he leaves he wants to put all of the toys back on the shelf for the next writer. To stop the tendency to use shock deaths to artificially raise the stakes

These easy resurrections just makes the original deaths even LESS meaningful.

Whether or not the Bus Bombing and subsequent killings in Stryker's attack was executed for pure shock value or not, there was still a LOAD of development that came out of it. That loss has largely defined the identity of the New X-Men. This identity — which is even MORE relevant now during the conversations over gun violence, and the fact we're literally watching the same sorts of mass killings happening in schools in REAL LIFE — has already been seriously undermined by Editorial decisions to downplay the trauma the NXM experienced, and in large part because it makes the "Sacred Cows" of the O5 and Claremont years look very, VERY bad because of just how MISERABLY they failed. And you can't tell me it's not calculated. EVERY. TIME. Editorial has been called out they do everything they can to downplay all the shit those kids have experienced and done so they can excuse shoving them back into school under some delusion that aging the O5/etc. and making them FALLIBLE makes them less interesting or relatable. They fought Stryker. They fought Nimrod. They kicked Belasco's ass ON HIS HOME TURF. They were on the front lines during Messiah Complex, and fighting Bastions entire army during Second Coming. And those experiences ARE DEFINED by the fact that 99% of them were depowered, and many of those got blasted into salsa.

Now POOF! All those dead mutants are back, and it's just going to be another tool to sweep all of that development under the rug.

Nori: There's nothing more you can teach us, Prof. We already know how to die.

Xavier: Why Nori, whatever do you mean? Look, Wither and Wallflower and Wolfcub and Icarus and Preview and Tag and they're all hunky dory in our Lotus Eater Paradise. *Sings*

UNDOING THESE DEATHS IS NOT A GOOD THING. It just makes the original deaths even SHALLOWER. It's STUPID. It's meaningless. It's EMPTY.

[Tycon]

Okay but the Resurrection Protocols don’t exist in a vacuum. The bus bombings, Genosha, Messiah Trilogy, Terrigen Mists, Rosencanny, Decimation ALL matter and it’s why Xavier and Moira and Magnwto form Krakoa. To heal mutantkind. Saying that they make things shallow just because there can’t be a smart comeback to a bad authorial figure during a grimdark period shouldn’t outweigh that there were tons of interesting characters (many of them POC) with cult followings who got offed and never had enough prominence or development to ever come back.

[From The Shadows]

The criticism is so over top and not in line reality that you have no choice but to defend it. Is Hickman run perfect? No. Is Hickman run same quality Marc Guggenheim "X-men Gold" or Matt Rosenberg "Uncanny"? No. Anyways Hickman is easier to defend than most writers because he is proven long term planner and the complete picture more than often works out. Criticism is fine but more than often the book keeps tell you it is not criticism people are dishing out and yet people keep saying certain stuff. For example

People keep saying X-men run is cult like

And we keep getting more and more information tell us that is not the case. Yet you keep seeing threads going up hey X-men are cult like. Hickman has his flaws but more than often the complaints about the set up isn't really his flaws or so exaggerated that we have no choice but go hey that isn't really right. When someone says Hickman is being "lazy" but a book about the very thing they are complaining about is coming and will probably flesh out all the issues you have no choice but say something. Anyways this is a forum for interaction you give opinion, somebody might have opinion on that opinion. It is amazing the amount of people willing to give critique without being ready to be critique themselves.

So because he plans ahead and has a reputation it means he is above criticism? Claremont did too, THEE MUCH REVERED CLAREMONT, and he's been getting complaints about his work for at least two decades to the point they became personal like attacking his weight and age etc.(which I don't agree with!).

Well I love HOX/POX and the current status quo, but I hated Hickman's writing of Jean on HOX and feel like 4 issues in his "X-Men" is quite underwhelming, so yeah, I get how ridiculous it is that people just straight up don't accept criticism of anything he does.

See, "underwhelming" is a pretty tame word and not over the top. But, I've noticed it doesn't have to be over the top to get someone upset.

criticism should be something writers of characters, specifically iconic character, should expect. as long as it is constructive and not made personal against the creative team I see no issue with this.

Agreed. I don't agree with personal attacks. See above.

[Kisinith]

These easy resurrections just makes the original deaths even LESS meaningful.

Whether or not the Bus Bombing and subsequent killings in Stryker's attack was executed for pure shock value or not, there was still a LOAD of development that came out of it. That loss has largely defined the identity of the New X-Men. This identity — which is even MORE relevant now during the conversations over gun violence, and the fact we're literally watching the same sorts of mass killings happening in schools in REAL LIFE — has already been seriously undermined by Editorial decisions to downplay the trauma the NXM experienced, and in large part because it makes the "Sacred Cows" of the O5 and Claremont years look very, VERY bad because of just how MISERABLY they failed. And you can't tell me it's not calculated. EVERY. TIME. Editorial has been called out they do everything they can to downplay all the shit those kids have experienced and done so they can excuse shoving them back into school under some delusion that aging the O5/etc. and making them FALLIBLE makes them less interesting or relatable. They fought Stryker. They fought Nimrod. They kicked Belasco's ass ON HIS HOME TURF. They were on the front lines during Messiah Complex, and fighting Bastions entire army during Second Coming. And those experiences ARE DEFINED by the fact that 99% of them were depowered, and many of those got blasted into salsa.

Now POOF! All those dead mutants are back, and it's just going to be another tool to sweep all of that development under the rug.

Nori: There's nothing more you can teach us, Prof. We already know how to die.

Xavier: Why Nori, whatever do you mean? Look, Wither and Wallflower and Wolfcub and Icarus and Preview and Tag and they're all hunky dory in our Lotus Eater Paradise. *Sings*

UNDOING THESE DEATHS IS NOT A GOOD THING. It just makes the original deaths even SHALLOWER. It's STUPID. It's meaningless. It's EMPTY.

This isn't an indictment against Hickman this is an indictment against the perpetually reset status of the MU and I'm not going to defend or castigate that. It is what it is, and it has been long before Hickman came to the X-Men.

I liked the NXM, but for the most part outside of Laura they haven't been relevant to the X-Men franchise in years, long before Hickman ever came on. I'm not going to defend the decision to sideline those kids, but it happened and the X-Men and the MU moved on or back, take your pick. The X-Men franchise as a whole has been mired in pointless deaths and misery porn for so long its ridiculous. Undoing that status, isn't empty, isn't shallow, and isn't stupid. I'm not trying to minimize what you feel about this, I emphasize with you but I don't agree with you.

I'm not going to criticize Hickman for this decision, which among the other things in DoX have reinvigorated the franchise, because of a perceived impact on the legacy of a story from 13 years ago that by and large isn't even referenced anymore (That's also not Hickman's fault). Whats more, the fact that he's not trying to add his own "brand new mutants" and decision to mine from many aspects and eras of X-Men history make it more likely that you might see more of the NXM kids than you were probably otherwise going to see.

Furthermore, he's not undoing those deaths, they still happened. He's recovering people from death, its a subtle nuance (One that only makes sense in superhero comic books) but a significant one. The events that they lived (or died) through still occurred.

[Sutekh]

I'm not going to criticize Hickman for this decision, which among the other things in DoX have reinvigorated the franchise, because of a perceived impact on the legacy of a story from 13 years ago that by and large isn't even referenced anymore (That's also not Hickman's fault). Whats more, the fact that he's not trying to add his own "brand new mutants" and decision to mine from many aspects and eras of X-Men history make it more likely that you might see more of the NXM kids than you were probably otherwise going to see.

This bolded part is, IMO, one of the best things about this whole direction. We don't have a new 'Five Lights' (that nobody else seemed to want to use) or group like Tempus, Triage, Hijack, etc. (that nobody else seemed to want to use) from Hickman, at least, and can spend some time reconnecting with mostly forgotten mutants, young and old, from previous generations, of which their are *many.*

[KangMiRae]

Anyone else think the worst part about DoX is the lack of relationship and romantic drama? I miss it. :[

[CRaymond]

Anyone else think the worst part about DoX is the lack of relationship and romantic drama? I miss it. :[

I was JUST thinking about starting a thread about unsaid or unexplored ships (romantic/platonic) that could move stories. I worry Krakoa resurrections are going to have us reading that sane old triangles.

[Kisinith]

So because he plans ahead and has a reputation it means he is above criticism? Claremont did too, THEE MUCH REVERED CLAREMONT, and he's been getting complaints about his work for at least two decades to the point they became personal like attacking his weight and age etc.(which I don't agree with!).

See, "underwhelming" is a pretty tame word and not over the top. But, I've noticed it doesn't have to be over the top to get someone upset.

Agreed. I don't agree with personal attacks. See above.

Personally I view this as a conversation and I love debates so its easy for me to get drawn in. Its not personal and I've got no problem with people disagreeing with me (doesn't mean I'm going to give up arguing though, as I said I enjoy debate too much.) I've also got no problem with criticism of things that occur in the books. The thing that keep pulling me to a lot of these threads is how frequently some, not all, of the critics keep throwing in opinions as fact and assumptions as evidence. (sometimes things that never showed up in the comic at all)

As an example there are some who insist that Xavier and Moira knew everything that was going to happen to people and kept it quiet. This is specifically and directly refuted in the very issue where Moira begins detailing her many lives, but one text-less montage image from an alternate lifetime is somehow proof that Xavier is now the worst person he's ever been (Or that not knowing everything invalidates Moira's X lifetimes of experience). Another that has shown up is that there is something wrong with the Krakoan drugs and part of some Krakoan plot to speed up the emergence of mutants. Something not even remotely hinted at in the story but used as part of the arguments against the current run.

This I think is part of the reason defenders of the current run come across sometimes as combative. Its been happening since HoX #1, some people who don't like the run clutter the threads and boards with wild theories and indictments based off of speculative information at best. In Marauders Kate has become a drunken murderess killing with pillows, that in-spite of what was said on page and that its a method used many times in the past the resurrections aren't real, their clones, That Xavier has completely abandoned his dream, that Moira convinced Xavier to kill himself during the P5 conflict, A whole lot of Emma/Jean nonsense I'm not even going to try and unpack, That Jean using her Marvel Girl costume meant that Xavier was using a younger version... and so on... and so on.

[Snoop Dogg]

I miss yellow/blue Wolverine. I really liked orange/black too.

[KangMiRae]

I was JUST thinking about starting a thread about unsaid or unexplored ships (romantic/platonic) that could move stories. I worry Krakoa resurrections are going to have us reading that sane old triangles.

We need another affair in the X-Househould.

Edit: Wait a minute, there was that Sinister Secret that never amounted to anything yet!

[spirit2011]

Anyone else think the worst part about DoX is the lack of relationship and romantic drama? I miss it. :[

For all the sex talk and horny bait, Krakoa have been pretty sexless

[KangMiRae]

For all the sex talk and horny bait, Krakoa have been pretty sexless

Lol! There was more sex and romance in Age of X-Man than this. Come on! Politics isn't sexy, Xavier. Enough with that stuff!

I'm looking for Moira to get with Wolverine. I really liked that he's been with her throughout a few of her lives; kinda romantic. There can be something there if a writer wanted there to be.

And a guest appearance of Conan the Barbarian in Krakoa—he could get the thoughts going!

[Kisinith]

For all the sex talk and horny bait, Krakoa have been pretty sexless

I'm kind of thankful to be honest, the relationship drama has long since played out and usually was the worst thing in the books. I like having Jean, Logan and Scott without the specter of that damned love triangle hanging over it. The same more or less holds true for most of the X-Men romances. I'd much rather see them play up the friendships and bro-mances right now

[spirit2011]

These easy resurrections just makes the original deaths even LESS meaningful.

Whether or not the Bus Bombing and subsequent killings in Stryker's attack was executed for pure shock value or not, there was still a LOAD of development that came out of it. That loss has largely defined the identity of the New X-Men. This identity — which is even MORE relevant now during the conversations over gun violence, and the fact we're literally watching the same sorts of mass killings happening in schools in REAL LIFE — has already been seriously undermined by Editorial decisions to downplay the trauma the NXM experienced, and in large part because it makes the "Sacred Cows" of the O5 and Claremont years look very, VERY bad because of just how MISERABLY they failed. And you can't tell me it's not calculated. EVERY. TIME. Editorial has been called out they do everything they can to downplay all the shit those kids have experienced and done so they can excuse shoving them back into school under some delusion that aging the O5/etc. and making them FALLIBLE makes them less interesting or relatable. They fought Stryker. They fought Nimrod. They kicked Belasco's ass ON HIS HOME TURF. They were on the front lines during Messiah Complex, and fighting Bastions entire army during Second Coming. And those experiences ARE DEFINED by the fact that 99% of them were depowered, and many of those got blasted into salsa.

Now POOF! All those dead mutants are back, and it's just going to be another tool to sweep all of that development under the rug.

Nori: There's nothing more you can teach us, Prof. We already know how to die.

Xavier: Why Nori, whatever do you mean? Look, Wither and Wallflower and Wolfcub and Icarus and Preview and Tag and they're all hunky dory in our Lotus Eater Paradise. *Sings*

UNDOING THESE DEATHS IS NOT A GOOD THING. It just makes the original deaths even SHALLOWER. It's STUPID. It's meaningless. It's EMPTY.

Deads have been very meaningless for a long time. New x men din't return because they were important

Now x-men are a on super confort zone that they can't be killed , that is a bit boring but at the same time interesting as they can be bold.

[Lucyinthesky]

I actually would like to see Selene and Magneto together just to see one relationship where he isn`t the older one, I blame X-men Dark Phoenix for that